Project Reality Forums

Rudd wrote:I'd agree with that, with the UAVs he's got plenty to do in the box, so perhaps he should stay there.

Though more couldn't hurt

Truth be told, I tried really, really hard to get into being a CO when the UAV was first rolled out. It wasn't fun, and I gained nothing from watching the little colored dots move around, talk to me about a battle I wasn't getting to participate in and 8 or 7 minute glimpses into that same battle. I tried again with the CO rally, and it just wasn't ever practical to use without such incredible preparations that I may as well have brought out a truck and set up an FOB.

I don't want to seem too greedy, but there are much better uses of my time than to sit in a little box and wait for a timer to tick down and press SLs for SITREPs that they usually resent giving. More 'toys' are needed for my end. If I wanted to play an RTS where I have no idea if the units are going to follow my orders, I'd play starcraft. Pathing is hard work :<

KiloJules wrote:Which is why there should be a commander right from the start...BEFORE every SL has his own mission planed.

If we need more stuff for the CO to do? And what? idk tbh...

SLs plan their missions when the next map starts loading, more accurately, they think about what mission plan they want to use. There's very little room for new tactics on maps that are, in some cases, years old. It's easy to know where the enemy is going to be, because they're always in the same place, because the best places are all worked out.

Stuff for them to do without gutting the current systems?
1) Multiple UAVs or other "realtime" intel. Satellite passes that are five or ten minutes old are not a bad place to start.
2) Multiple area attack types with different recharge rates and different purposes. 105mm Smokes? Total Area Saturation from MRLS or Grad? CBUs? There are a lot of possibilities. (Why not restrict them based on ROEs? No way they'd just level city blocks in insurgency, but there's nothing stopping them from demolishing a shack half a km away from anything else)
3) Want to really force/entice COs to step up by shoehorning in some mandatory mechanic on insurgency (It worked so well last time, didn't it)? Give him concentric circles of intel that begin to overlap as more occur, eventually overlapping one keypad or less, the actual location of the cache.
3 A) Similarly, putting the CO in charge of asset management and battleplan choices during AAS would make him mandatory and more involved. Point buy systems, picking from a battleplan every 20 minutes for reinforcements (shamelessly stolen from CoH's commander trees), requiring squadleaders to have a little powwow and vote for an option, whatever.
4) Losing a battle? Been assigned a random, horrible, backasswards point? Don't want to spend 300 tickets assaulting a hill? Exchange 150 tickets for a Critical Point Change, get a 6/9 SL majority, and relocate one of the flags to a more.. suitable location.
5) What was wrong with supply drops?
6) Basically anything that makes an RTS fun can apply, at the risk of alienating the guys on the ground, but..

It's always going to be a balance. A commander who has too much power is going to attract all of the wrong people, and make the game very unpleasant for the players fighting it. A commander who has too little power isn't worth using. The commander's job from vanilla is no longer applicable, he has no function as a communications aid, and his support abilities are totally gutted, and not likely to return. People played him for the support abilities primarily, and until those return, or he is somehow shoehorned back into the game with arbitrary requirements for his presence, he won't make any widespread appearances in public servers.

mat552 wrote: Stuff for them to do without gutting the current systems?
1) Multiple UAVs or other "realtime" intel. Satellite passes that are five or ten minutes old are not a bad place to start.

How about giving the CO two observation posts, like these: Digital Force Technologies - Products that have to be deployed by SL like a FOB. They would give black and white still frames, on a 30s delay, updating every 15 seconds, the CO would be able to change the direction and zoom too? Also, if there are more than 3 enemy in a 50m radius it could suggest a map marker?

It'd give the CO something to look at whilst he waits for the UAV. It could also be taken out with a few well placed rifle rounds as well. Ofcourse the downside would be it'd take away some of the raison d'etre of the sniper kit.

Also, would it be realistic to have scout helecopters relaying their mast images to the CO?

If I understood the OPs intention correctly it is akin to having a 2nd JDAM available via commander. The original will remain as is, and still function based off of an SLs marker, but the commander will have his own area attack to use as he sees fit.

I believe it would indeed add some extra value to having an active commander but I like Rudds twist on the suggestion in the sense that the heaviest area attack should only be available to the SL/Comm combo leaving the commander area attack as a less powerful attack (IE: SL/Comm can drop JDAM with the normal time restriction whereas the comm can drop arty every 30 mins).

Interesting idea, and I agree with the underlying point of giving the commander a more direct impact on the fighting.

spiked_rye wrote: Also, would it be realistic to have scout helecopters relaying their mast images to the CO?

Pretty much impossible in the BF2 engine. I'm also not a fan of the observation post idea; obsoleting the sniper's theoretical main role only encourages them to pursue their ancillary roles (lonewolfing and hunting the enemy). Better for a commander to communicate with their sniper team and build a picture of the battlefield that way.

A general comment for those you arguing that the commander is worthless; never underestimate the ability to centralize and coordinate a full team's momentum. I have used, strategically and to great success, every asset/ability available to the commander. It can either be the most rewarding experience or the most humiliating, ineffectual experience depending entirely on the team you're working with and, to a small extent, the team you're going up against.

We are continuing to look for ways to improve the commander role.

spiked_rye wrote:Also, would it be realistic to have scout helecopters relaying their mast images to the CO?

Print Screen, Alt+Tab, Open \Documents\Battlefield 2\Screenshots\ folder, select screenshot and send to the commander though Xfire or something

Pretty much the only way you can do it right now and most likely for the foreseeable future too

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:Print Screen, Alt+Tab, Open \Documents\Battlefield 2\Screenshots\ folder, select screenshot and send to the commander though Xfire or something

Pretty much the only way you can do it right now and most likely for the foreseeable future too

Shame, was just an after thought really, whilst I was in that sort of area.

I do think that if the CO is given more area attacks, they should be significantly less powerfull, if for no other reason than getting wiped out by some guy you can't kill because he's in the DOD, and you have no warning about. Rigth now the JDAM is so rarely used, it's quite a novelty to be hit by one, but if you can get hit by an area attack every 15 or 20 min, it'd get pretty boring pretty quickly. TBH spammy mortars were quite bad when they were first released, but it doesn't seem too bad now.

The other alternative would be to give the CO something else to do, either some form of intel to look at, or some logistical role.

As I suggested here, why don't we give the commander a radar? One that detects aircraft that fly above a certain height.

It would stop helicopter pilots from diving down on other helicopters, and the endless helicopter battles that happen at extreme heights. The radar would refresh every two seconds, and the icons remain on the map for that period of time.

This would give the commander involvement in the protection of Close Air Support, and ground teams, by sending trough the locations of the aircraft.

I think that this is good idea.
Moreover you could also add more accurate and faster radar for Air Defence Vehicles(Something like UAV from BF2 with scan range about 1km)

A second (third or even more) UAV would go a ways to making the COs job better. You can set one up on a point you'dlike to watch long term and send the other(s) hunting for "stuff".

Instead of changing the JDAM why not give the CO the barrage area attack on JDAM maps? It goes off every 30 mins but you also still have the big guns for FOB citys. Another idea is to add other thingsas said before such as smoke or missile strikes. The system could work by giving the CO a list of area attack when he apporves. To make it work for all maps have a genral list like "Type 1", or Primary , Secondry soon.

A third idea so to have a CO control peolpe getting high level assets such as jet, or where SL put down FOBs. One thing about CO approved FOBs is it stops dumb FOB in useless spots.

Put jdam on enemy base

???

Profit.

The DoD will impede such a plan

I just saw/found this awesome animation, and there REALLY must get a change into the JDAM animation, with more FIRE, like u see here, this guy made it January 2011, last year:





at the moment of explosion there is (though very short just) a huuuge flame (!!!)...






2500lb: http://youtu.be/rCBIzlf4RMU

2000lb: http://youtu.be/cKc0CBPwpsE?hd=1

1000lb: http://youtu.be/k42t9IRpaAE

I have no idea what payload the DEVs meant to program in PR... but still, I also want to say, I can't remember that I ever, I really NEVER heard the JDAM incoming like you DO hear in reality... (the "shhhhhhHHHHHH!!!"-kind of sound, u know...). Maybe because of Server-client-ping issues the sound in PR isn't coming at all, or too late...

The ideas been around for a while but nobody knows how to implement it just at the moment. This guy from the video i just posted got on to me and explained his process to me because I asked. I also asked Alex (the previous PR effects guy) for advice but college got in the way.

But to be honest, while i know a little about after effects and video compiling, i am shamefully inadequate at making effects in the editor. I cant even get my editor to work properly.

However if somebody was to attempt this they would need an artist's touch or it would look woeful. I'll give it a shot over the summer I guess for my own entertainment. But it would be better if Alex came back and tried putting couch hits and flames and debris and all sorts of stuff INTO the smoke, and not superimposed over the front of the smoke like is in your video. And thats the trick.

Oh yeeeeeah... they can be optimized a bit.

Come on, community! Do sth. for this!

Do it yourself.

Daniel wrote:I just saw/found this awesome animation, and there REALLY must get a change into the JDAM animation, with more FIRE, like u see here, this guy made it January 2011, last year:

This is so ugly, also it's made with a video editor.

U mean the flame is totally added by video-editor? should be possible with refractor engine though imo...

a commander deployed Jdam would mean someone will waste it. thats for sure. could also be someone who actually use it for something good.

Daniel wrote:U mean the flame is totally added by video-editor? should be possible with refractor engine though imo...

Yes, the flame is added with a video editor, so ugly too