Project Reality Forums

Pvt.LHeureux wrote:It's the main problem with CAS in PR.

-Enemy got AA up?
-Yes
-Ok, forget CAS until it's destroyed

oh really? you mean just like real life.

or perhaps it would be better if CAS vehicles got to buzz around totally unobstructed and slapped everyone

saXoni wrote:You're one extremely careful guy then. Or lucky, for that matter

Or he flies transport helicopters only lol..... Attack helicopters (who knows why...) have much less armor/health than the transport ones. For some reason I was thinking an Apache had more armor than a Huey..... Usually with transport helicopters they just shrug it off or manage to RTB with just enough HP. Attack helicopters die in one shot every time without fail (Apache, Havok, Kiowa, Cobra, Eurocopter, Gazelle, etc.).

The dive tactic will leave you open to attack from anyone not directly below you, and unless you pull away before you get in visual range you are actually fairly easy to hit. I've seen it a million times on HOG, it seems to be standard practice on Muttrah with good reason.

To the guy who claims to have not been shot down in ages (assuming you're not talking about the CAS Huey) "pics or it didn't happen". lol

Sunk two Hueys On Muttrah (NEW) last night. Each one got 1.5 hits by that I mean near explosions. Missed the Cobra with the first pair of missiles he was going perpendicular to me flaring, then he dives on me whilst waiting for reload and I'm dead.

Sadly one Huey crashed after being hit so no kills.

Speaking as someone who does deployed AA a lot, the attack helis that kill me most are the ones that come diving in on me fast firing everything whilst flaring - even when I shoot at them I rarely hit when they are head on.

OFC you've got to know where it is to do that; so get a third man in your squad to spot, or play on servers with enough teamwork and communication that the SL's are at least looking for it and talking to you.

I would consider your input, only if I knew the circumstances on the ground of the Anti Aircraft battery at the time.
There are so many different conditions that really govern how effective they are, and most of the time I have ever had trouble with AA, is because I had no idea where it was.
I wouldn't even bother to further explain myself after acknowledging the fact that Attack Aircraft (Helis included) very rarely fly when they know the enemy has AA up in Real life.

The main point Id like to communicate with you guys is that any change in favor of saving the pilots life would make life even more difficult for the boots, wheels and tracks on the ground.
CAS is absolutely brutal in the hands of a competent crew, that's something we all agree on here.
What would be the point in giving them invincibility. The odds have to be against them, otherwise the only way that a Missle could damage or kill a Heli or Jet under the current "Flare" system, is if the Pilot was extremely slow at deploying countermeasures and taking evasive action.
The whole system would have to be revamped to something beyond our understanding of the game that maybe the Devs could enlighten us on.
Otherwise, I really cant see a point in making small changes.

Murphy wrote:The dive tactic will leave you open to attack from anyone not directly below you, and unless you pull away before you get in visual range you are actually fairly easy to hit. I've seen it a million times on HOG, it seems to be standard practice on Muttrah with good reason.

To the guy who claims to have not been shot down in ages (assuming you're not talking about the CAS Huey) "pics or it didn't happen". lol

That's why you pull up before you even see the ground...

@Sax, it's not fun but it's really the only thing that works 100%

OK guys lets clear this up:
I think im a very experienced pilot and i can tell you you can avoid an aa hit with a chance of nearly 100%. How you do that and how u have to fly thats another chapter and needs a lot of experience in a battlesituation(u cannot train that on a trainingsserver and its different between all maps). BUT there is only one BIG problem: U HAVE TO KNOW WHERE THE BADGUYS ARE. therefore the communication of the whole team comes into play(which is currently the goal of PR ). The CAS Squad is only as good as the whole team is playing together (i know when u have got a retarted enemy team, then all this is not nessasary and u also get your 80 kills without suadleadercommunication, but im talking of an experienced enemy team)
So in my opinion AA is not overpowered, its good as it is now.

I flew a Cobra on Muttra a few times recintly. Medium altitude and dodged every AA fired at me.

You need to remeber if the AA locks you, turn round and fly through your flares. Dropping flares as you fly forward leaves the flares behind and is only good if the AA is behind you. If you carry on flying forward towards the area you started to get locked from you are an easy target.

Diving is the worst, AA locks, you drop flares your still going into the lock cone and boom your dead with flares dropping way behind you. The AA missile keeps coming right at you due to the flares being behind.

Medium Alt, Hover/slow forward, AA lock, Barrel roll while dropping flares, drop the power into a slow decent and you will be decending in a cloud of flares. AA missile detonates on the flares, your ssafe.

Its not about how over powerd they are its about knowing how the flares work. The way I explained it the only way you get shot down is from a AA guy who is disaplined to not lock you as soon as your in range of his AA. Doing that leaves the pilot who rolls and dropps flares or turns the way he came with flares trailing behind flying right into the AA with his nose to the missile, boom dead. Dont hunt for the chopper let them come close, then lock.

I only got shot down when my gunner insisted we dived a target, flares trailing behind and the cobra in nice open sky flying right at the AA. The gunner learned his lesson.

Well first of all when you know that there is AA, why don't you take it out from an unexpected position? So don't attack it head on. And what about sending the infantry in? And at these times you can also call mortars in to at least suppress them or even take them out!

CAS is the most powerful thing in PR
One Hellfire can destory any vehicle and it's thermal makes gunner much easier to locate enemies.

But Helo CAS is weak, just because it's powerful firepower.
What you should do is to avoid to engage enemies hide in the battlefield and rely on friendly intelligences.
Pop flares before entering the danger place, fly high and never stay still for more than 20s( There is probably one hat-man is aimming you, lol)
Use those information from friendly and keep stay away from frontline if there is no targets for you!

Pvt.LHeureux wrote:It's the main problem with CAS in PR.

-Enemy got AA up?
-Yes
-Ok, forget CAS until it's destroyed

Not true man
If there is proper intelligence about stationary AA and laser.
I'll go.
Except laser, I just need one thing: Which direction the AA is watching??
That's all I need!

B.Pronk(NL) wrote:Well first of all when you know that there is AA, why don't you take it out from an unexpected position? So don't attack it head on. And what about sending the infantry in? And at these times you can also call mortars in to at least suppress them or even take them out!

A decent handheld AA guy will not show himself to you and stay in one spot, and even if he does, he can hear the helicopter LONG before the helicopter can see him, thus providing him time to find a spot where he can quickly fire and duck to safety before he is engaged.

To those saying that helicopters stand a chance against AA, feel free to show a pic of you with more than 40 kills in a kiowa when I have AA on kokan, it just won't happen. Any competent Stinger shooter will drop you in a heartbeat.

As i know that effect of Air to Air or Surface to air missile is lower from low altitude then high alt, or lower from far then close, i suggest that dev-s do some little twiking. Make AA min ang of shoting, around 15 deg, so if u are close and low with kiowa, he should have a problem to lock u. Also i will made turning around with AA, slower, like tank turn his gun. Couse now in AAvihicle u can reach around 30G by speed turning . It will give pilot, a little more time to react and evade.

Air-to-air missile non-comparison table

;D

I have done my fair share of deployed AA sitting and yes, only way to kill me was by diving onto me with all your hydras and hellfires. Smaller the map, easier the kills.

=HCM= Shwedor wrote:To those saying that helicopters stand a chance against AA, feel free to show a pic of you with more than 40 kills in a kiowa when I have AA on kokan, it just won't happen. Any competent Stinger shooter will drop you in a heartbeat.

This is true, probably the only single person I fear using AA or HATs in general.

Ron-Schultz wrote:OK guys lets clear this up:
I think im a very experienced pilot and i can tell you you can avoid an aa hit with a chance of nearly 100%. How you do that and how u have to fly thats another chapter and needs a lot of experience in a battlesituation(u cannot train that on a trainingsserver and its different between all maps). BUT there is only one BIG problem: U HAVE TO KNOW WHERE THE BADGUYS ARE. therefore the communication of the whole team comes into play(which is currently the goal of PR ). The CAS Squad is only as good as the whole team is playing together (i know when u have got a retarted enemy team, then all this is not nessasary and u also get your 80 kills without suadleadercommunication, but im talking of an experienced enemy team)
So in my opinion AA is not overpowered, its good as it is now.

*NwA*Orford wrote:I flew a Cobra on Muttra a few times recintly. Medium altitude and dodged every AA fired at me.

You need to remeber if the AA locks you, turn round and fly through your flares. Dropping flares as you fly forward leaves the flares behind and is only good if the AA is behind you. If you carry on flying forward towards the area you started to get locked from you are an easy target.

Diving is the worst, AA locks, you drop flares your still going into the lock cone and boom your dead with flares dropping way behind you. The AA missile keeps coming right at you due to the flares being behind.

Medium Alt, Hover/slow forward, AA lock, Barrel roll while dropping flares, drop the power into a slow decent and you will be decending in a cloud of flares. AA missile detonates on the flares, your ssafe.

Its not about how over powerd they are its about knowing how the flares work. The way I explained it the only way you get shot down is from a AA guy who is disaplined to not lock you as soon as your in range of his AA. Doing that leaves the pilot who rolls and dropps flares or turns the way he came with flares trailing behind flying right into the AA with his nose to the missile, boom dead. Dont hunt for the chopper let them come close, then lock.

I only got shot down when my gunner insisted we dived a target, flares trailing behind and the cobra in nice open sky flying right at the AA. The gunner learned his lesson.

i dont know how you guys do this ,
but if you describe that the problem is the helicopter is in the front and the flares are behind , so the damn problem is the flares that dropped from the helicopter are dropped to this sides of the heli , no to the front

so if the missle is in front of me and not in the side of me, first of all i need to know that .
second even if i know some how magicly that the missle coming in front of me it takes me 1 second to rotate the helicopter to the side

but the main problem is that the flares dropped to the helicopter side

in a jet the problem is worse, because the flares dropped from the back.
so escape from AA chance is even lower from the helicopter
in jet i NEVER escaped AA lock.
i can dodge the missle of a jet that lock on me , and even get behind the jet that behind me
but the AA is not the same because the missle coming from the ground,

I'm sorry but flying towards the instrument of your death sounds stupid no matter what countermeasures you deploy imo...

you need to use a non-linear flightpath, I dunno about real life, but It doesn't seem possible to deploy flares in front of you considering the speeds at which a chopper (especially ingame) travels.

Rudd wrote:I'm sorry but flying towards the instrument of your death sounds stupid no matter what countermeasures you deploy imo...

Yes, a chopper is not an anti-anti-air-vehicle.

PricelineNegotiator wrote:Yes, a chopper is not an anti-anti-air-vehicle.

Nothing is nothing, it's all about luck whether the AA hits u or not. U can go towards it and just spam the shit out of it with hellfires and just drop flares and hope noone shoots you down with TOW/Tank/Hat.

Just bomb it out of from its visual range

I find the best way to dodge MANPADS, in particular the SA-7, from any angle is to simple point your nose down and hit s (cut power) while popping flares. Sometimes you may not even need flares. Not sure if it is an error in the game or what but the SA-7 will miss 9/10 times if you do that quickly enough, requires you to be above about 350m though. Works best with Kiowas. However, if you attempt this and the enemy is using a Stinger you are dead.