Project Reality Forums

Murphy just gave me a hardon

Murphy wrote:... (something a bunch of randoms will rarely do, they would often rather one man army it up brraaa) ... something a bunch of random pubbies would struggle to understand ...

Good sir could you please revise your language here, as I find it quite disrespectful; why on earth should be non-clan players worse than the clanned ones?
I've seen "a bunch of rundom pubbies" play it much better than some clan bros more times than i could count. By that i mean no offence to your clan, I dont know how good/bad you guys are, and frankly im not interested in it either.

however I really dont like this "Im in a clan, Im the boss, and all pubbies are pussies" attitude.

See you on the battlefield

Join better squads.

lucky.BOY wrote: I've seen "a bunch of rundom pubbies" play it much better than some clan bros more times than i could count.

Those are random clans, not OD-S. OD-S is made up of and contains all of, without exception, the best players in Pr

lucky.BOY wrote: however I really dont like this "Im in a clan, Im the boss, and all pubbies are pussies"

If a person is in OD-S he obvious is inheriently better than you.

What I'm trying to say is God damnit Murphy that much arrogance is unbecoming of a Canadian.

Speaking as someone who has lead pubby squads for more than five years, believing that public players who have never met before are likely to be better at teamworking than an organised clan is wilful self delusion.

Whatever personal grievances you have with OD-S, this is not the place to voice them.

As to your actual point, the officer kit gives not only a laser designator, the ability to spawn FOBs and rally points, a radio and a sidearm, it also gives a much needed extra two patches. However, if you are not planning on building or lasing anything in the near future, it's really not too much of a heinous crime to take something else, particularly if it is an anti-tank or similarly specialist kit.

lucky.BOY wrote:Good sir could you please revise your language here, as I find it quite disrespectful; why on earth should be non-clan players worse than the clanned ones?
I've seen "a bunch of rundom pubbies" play it much better than some clan bros more times than i could count. By that i mean no offence to your clan, I dont know how good/bad you guys are, and frankly im not interested in it either.

however I really dont like this "Im in a clan, Im the boss, and all pubbies are pussies" attitude.

See you on the battlefield

On average clan players are better. They're better because they're dedicated to playing at a higher level than a casual pubber, usually tallying in a week more hours than most average players net in a month, and on top of that play together with the same players across often multiple squads coordinating frequently.

They're not only on average better 1 on 1 players but they're better coordinators because they practice in a way that a random pubber simply can't except by accident when he ends up on the same team as other players he routinely may see now and then.

I'm not saying that a non-clan pubber isn't capable of being very good. There are many people who prefer to not be in clans while simultaneously posting similar hours played per month as a clan player, but they're not as common and usually when someone gets to this level of dedication to PR they end up rolling into a clan so that they can play with people of similar dedication.

Its a simple fact that time spent on a skill equals greater proficieny. Greater time spent practicing and playing with people in a coordinated fashion together equals even greater proficiency because not only are you better at coordinating with the same people rather than random people but you also get the benefit of working on your skills from others who may be better or have new perspectives and are capable of pushing your limits.

Clans also play matches in a highly organized, or at least 100% coordinated fashion amongst their own players, against other teams of similar nature and as such get better practice against opponents who offer a greater challenge and as such force even better development of skills and strategy understanding of how to play and win in this game.

You just can't get that from being casual. I'm not knocking casual. I'm not in a competitive PR clan. I'm not as good as those guys. There is a side effect though.

Clan players can be arrogant annoying self involved jackasses. Thats true of just about anybody who cultivates a skill and has the advantage of doing it on the internet where one doesn't have the same consequences of having to look someone in the eye whilst conducting oneself as a supreme ****.

There are a lot of clan guys I don't like, ther are a lot I do like, but overall I always respect their skill and proficiency, but not necessarily their attitude or how they choose to play on public servers where the opposition may not stand a chance against their superior coordinated onslaught.

While I don't approve of bad clan player attitudes I equally don't approve of people who deride their dominance. Half the time its because the casual players are just as bad in attitude but in the inverse way as an arrogant clan player, but instead of it being about how good they are its about how little they care about wanting to take it seriously.

Fact is though, you wanna learn to be a ridiculously great player? Sign up with SRF and let them show you a few things. There are great players in this game that haven't even begun to understand the game they play. Not all of the gratest players are in clans but the easiest way to find a strong concentration of them is in those clans.

CommunistComma wrote:Those are random clans, not OD-S. OD-S is made up of and contains all of, without exception, the best players in Pr


If a person is in OD-S he obvious is inheriently better than you.

What I'm trying to say is God damnit Murphy that much arrogance is unbecoming of a Canadian.

I'd like to wager that they have the best people in the game, as from what i've seen on a pub level it seems to be incorrect.

While it's hard to measure organized groups against unorganized/less cohesion I still disagree with the statement you have THE BEST players. That is herese/an opinion not a fact.

T.A.Sharps wrote:WOW

:d uh:I regret now not being able to check in here until now.

The thread got way off base on the point I was making, somehow going into everyone's personal strategies while Squad Leading, all the way to Clan vs PUBer bashing.

I may have confused some by saying "Squad Leader" instead of "Officer Kit", I just always thought of both as the same.


My original point was based in the fact that the OFFICER kit is just not valuable to the general population in PR. Meaning, there is nothing about the Squad Leader/officer kit that is critical to game play.

Thus my comparison to the Medic kit and how it is CRUCIAL to nearly everyone in PR. Most of the time no squad will go without a medic because the abilities are that important to everyone that plays.

Not everyone wants to be one, but nearly everyone wants one near by in game. The Squad Leader/officer should be just as important to players. And by that I mean, the Officer kit needs some change fundamentally to make it more critical to the PR experience, rather than just a minor benefit. Like the Commander, its nice, but no one really needs it.

Personally, I was hoping for a discussion on possibilities here...

... for instance just off the top of my head, as an example, and by no means the only idea, perhaps enable the Officer Kit to be the sole distributor of Kits, meaning you need to ask for permission for any kit, giving the Squad Leader some authority and ability to control.


Something to make the player more dependent on a Squad Leader/Officer.

That was suggested but it was shot down to the amount of micro managing that takes, coding and general SL's distaste for having to drop what he's doing to baby sit even more than they already had to. Some people liked it, most hated it, like with any democracy. Can't please em all.

SGT.Ice wrote:I'd like to wager that they have the best people in the game, as from what i've seen on a pub level it seems to be incorrect.

While it's hard to measure organized groups against unorganized/less cohesion I still disagree with the statement you have THE BEST players. That is herese/an opinion not a fact.

ODS routinely gets their butts kicked by SRF as far as I know. I'd be willing to wager that SRF are the best infantry clan in PR.

T.A.Sharps wrote: My original point was based in the fact that the OFFICER kit is just not valuable to the general population in PR. Meaning, there is nothing about the Squad Leader/officer kit that is critical to game play.

Incorrect. SL Radio is very useful. Rally points umm.... oh yea FOBs and Anti-Air and TOWs... yea I can think of a few things that are good. But then again thats only true if we're playing Combined Arms AAS, not rape squad Insurgency as BLUFOR over and over and over.

One way we could rejuvenate the love of the officer kit for you "I can't be a leader without a mega awesome kit in my hands" types is to bring back the old school rally point. Overall I think that would be good for PR all by itself.

Generally I agree there are plenty of reasons to drop the officer kit for something else, especially in small 4 man squads, but generally speaking I totally disagree that its useless.

EDIT. I guess you could be correct but for differnet reasons. Just because its not valuable to the general population doesn't mean its not valuable, its just not valued. Its treated as useless because people don't see the value or want to bother playing in a way that takes advantage of it. There is an inherent limitation to using an officer kit because you can't do it yourself and instead have to get someone else to.

But anybody who doesn't take an officer kit in 126 is an idiot.

I squad lead yest for half a day till I had cramp in my hands on the =merk= server had some good players with me too,it's pretty hard sometime being sl as people leave sqd and others join,but if u can get a squad that's plays from start of map till the end of map you get some good game play and enjoyable rounds,when I don't sl I always try to follow sl orders and if not the best sl still support him and help him out as everybody needs a break as its only a game.... But a good game of that to if played right!!!!!

Just what I can add about SL'ing experience my own, random people lack dedication and willingness to be actual squad member (this applies to 80% random people what I ever got in while SL'ing) and if they are not willing then it does not matter how good SL you are.

In TART I got squad under my command and people in it - ready and willing to learn, be better, become professional, fight with the best and main thing, enjoy their own success by wining or losing games against good enemy and knowing what in the hell went wrong.

Three things you need to enjoy the game and win it (wise man called Zrix told me this and he is absolutely right): 1. Good Squad Leader, 2. Good Squad Members 3. Bit of luck

One of my friends tell me that I should be more harsh to get things done, however, getting (sounding) mad during a game is not the reason I play. If more people would understand the role of leading the squad, people would listen more. I can lead a squad and I can be lead, it isn't hard really.

Play the game when you have a willingness to listen and work as a team + follow the chain of command (not always from the commander).

What will ruin this game/mod is when people don't respect each other anymore, I recommend everybody to not play this game on bad servers since your willingness to play the game, will deteriorate day by day - Especially if you play this game for the SL role.

Funk, the wins go back n forth.

Provides good leadership experience.

IMHO the pubbie SL's bear a certain responsibility to the game and community.

If the SL is OK in keeping his squad together and the SM's not getting bored they'll come back for more and improve themselves.

If the SL's can co ordinate together and work together more then everyone will have a better game.

BUT even with super dupper new mumble SL's coms and co ordiantion is sadly lacking hugely.
Last night on NEW - Jabal - I was sq4 and managed to do a bit with Sq1 (Cossack) but sq3 (german guy) didn't even answer....ever - maybe no english but makes me sad.

With new mumble IMHO SL role should have evolved to co ordinate attacks with other squads, run to help and revive other squads but for some reason you're lucky if two other SL's even respond let alone think of doing anything together.

My two SL issues on PR ATM:
1. Why no talk?
2. Why never defend?

Don't forget you can still lead a squad with which ever kit you so desire, there is one guy in charge of the squad and if you don't listen to him you may very well get kicked from the squad. Now a days most popular server require players to be in a squad or they get kicked from the server, and as such somewhere along the line an SL can take the first step towards removing unruly players from a server.

So in a sense the SL is not only the glue of a squad but also a blunt instrument used to weed out those who do not play the game properly.

T.A.Sharps wrote:All your posts are proving my point.

What abilities can be given to the Officer to make him valuable?

Did you actually comprehend the words typed in my post or were you just picking the bits you could highlight to justify your perspective?

The Officer kit is for Squad Leaders who want to function as a part of a greater entity, the ones who try and coordinate with a team of randoms by giving them markers, spawn points, and overall laying aside a direct action role for an abstract coordinator role.

You can choose whatever kit you want, but an officer kit has it values. And as i said, just because you and the rest of the community doesn't value it doesn't mean the value isn't there, it just means you're choosing to ignore that value.

What do you want the officer kit to get? Instant micro-area attack? Super Duper exploding round shotgun? He has a rifle, he can kill stuff, he has smoke so he can obscure an area, he has grenades so he can frag a room, he has everything a basic rifleman has except extra ammo. He trades this for an SL radio thats invaluable for coordinating with the rubes on a pubby server, a back up weapon (pistol), an uber-binocular that lazes targets and calls in fire support while giving range and better zoom, he gets to drop respawn points for his squad, gets to build Firebases, TOWs, Anti-Air, Barricades, Foxholes, and he gets extra patches so that if the medic is down you won't die most likely and can keep the squad up trying to get the medic kit back.

I don't know what brand of crack you're smoking but the Officer kit has a pantload of features, the only problem is they're not features useful to people who have tunnel vision and only think of value interms of stuff-blown-up.

Like I said though, its not 100% mandatory every minute of every round, but it has its own value that is sorely missed in many situations. People just refuse to acknowledge this.

PFunk wrote:---

A squad leader has allot of usable responsibility, maybe squad members should listen a bit more and be more enthusiastic about the general objective :

As an SL I always just tell people to get the right kits and follow my lead, that's all there is to it.