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Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-27 12:13
by L4gi
OD-S will spread into both teams this campaign to balance the teams out as much as possible.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-27 12:48
by Mouthpiece
L4gi wrote:OD-S will spread into both teams this campaign to balance the teams out as much as possible.
This is the (clan) attitude I like! Nice.

Can't wait for an improved version/season of that delicious TART.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-27 14:26
by Wicca
Mouthpiece wrote:This is the (clan) attitude I like! Nice.

Can't wait for an improved version/season of that delicious TART.
Shut up mouthpiece..
:D

And abusive Admins!!!

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-27 15:12
by Arnoldio
[R-CON]Wicca wrote:Opposed to complete randoms, who might not even bother checking the forums, since they werent placed with their mates.
Aaaaand because the tournament isnt Muttrah 24/7. If they are such babies that get all stubborn when they arent with their friends, then they have no place in the tournament. Thats just the people that make clans look bad. Always wants to be with his group, playing his way, and if he cant, then his attitude is meh/fuck off. Narrow minded, not open to new experiences.

Same in PR. mimimimim, i wanna be a marine! Gets switched to insurgets, game suddenly sucks and quit.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-27 15:43
by jerkzilla
One thing: please stop structuring the forums in that horrible way with millions and millions of subforums. To see when the next training was, you'd have to look in the forum's equivalent of a basement, like in the subforum of a subforum of another subforum. Seriously, all that grunts really need to know is training days, battle days and a general team roster. You can make a separate subforum filled with all the administrative stuff you ever wanted but don't mix the important bits with it.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-27 19:35
by MaxBooZe
Arnoldio wrote:Aaaaand because the tournament isnt Muttrah 24/7. If they are such babies that get all stubborn when they arent with their friends, then they have no place in the tournament. Thats just the people that make clans look bad. Always wants to be with his group, playing his way, and if he cant, then his attitude is meh/fuck off. Narrow minded, not open to new experiences.

Same in PR. mimimimim, i wanna be a marine! Gets switched to insurgets, game suddenly sucks and quit.
Actually this happened in PRT a lot, people sign up for NATO, NATO is full, people get assigned to CATA instead. Never weakened any of the teams, bailers are probably just 20% of the people that didn't get their choice, most people actually suck it up.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-27 21:18
by xambone
Change names of sides to something that is interesting.
Use Simple ranking/leadership system to balance organization with function.
Make events simple to understand and clear about what level what map what time...
IF an event is taking more than a month to plan it is too big for this tourney.
Remember you have "customers" who are spending their time on YOUR(collective group) idea.

Less delay more play. Get Friends to join together in squads and then to a pure lottery instead of pick a side. Make "friends" swap if people bolt from sticking to their side. Make note of things and limit the amount of time you are wasting on trying to get this going.

I dropped out because nothing was going anywhere fast. Then I stopped playing PR for a while. You have something good here but you dont need to waste people's time with building your perfect army.

Best of luck.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-27 21:51
by Bluedrake42
get rid of teamspeak, just use mumble

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-27 22:14
by DoRn
oh and of course more Fools Road :D

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-27 22:58
by PFunk
Bluedrake42 wrote:get rid of teamspeak, just use mumble
You're on crack. Mumble goes down, nobody has any whispers set up, server info, or familiarity with how it works, then if that happens inside of an hour of a battle you're going to see a lot of confusion. This is especially true since you also didn't like the idea of being in the Xfire group which would be the backup way of communicating the last minute changes.

TS is used for its flexibility. You can have more whispers than squads, you can have the CO able to whisper to anybody he wants if he makes the whisper instead of it just being the squad leader. Pretend you want to talk to two different pilots in one squad but you have to squeeze them into one since we have a hard 9 squad limit, well you're out of luck aren't you.

Its not overcomplicating it just because you want the flexibility to make things work effectively. What works for public doesn't necessarily work for tournament, especially with a tourney trying to do more than just 32 player teams. It was a foregone conclusion that somebody would have to merge squads considering the team sizes no matter how we sliced it. Without TS a 32+ team will have a shortage of whispers, not to mention it basically leaves a possible Platoon Leader position utterly without a radio link, and only able to use local.

TS is essential for too many reasons.
MaxBoZ wrote:Actually this happened in PRT a lot, people sign up for NATO, NATO is full, people get assigned to CATA instead. Never weakened any of the teams, bailers are probably just 20% of the people that didn't get their choice, most people actually suck it up.
Yea thats how it works. If I recall it the PRT would be just sometimes unsympathetic to your desire to be on a team if it was full. It was more like you'd have to wait for the next round and hope you got the team you wanted. It never felt like it a 'sure thing' but never like they were working against you.

I'm not bashing clans, I said as much. I was just replying to the guy who said its not an issue at all. It is a potential issue, if its not managed, like anything. People have to be realistic about it, and ensure that the clans are on the same page. Its just the dance of management which has to be proactive about it. Thats all I'm saying. Its more a point about if admins dont manage it, and instead just treat it as laissez-faire, then its more likely to be screwey. Just assuming everyone will naturally balance the teams is foolish. thats what admin are there to do.

New blood would be nice in the officers and commanders and having the tournament start in the fall will definitely improve the likelihood of getting some, instead of the low sign up rate you get in a spring period. What sustains a tournament through the waning months of the spring season when sign ups will start to dry up is the strong core thats established pre-christmas break and into January.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-28 02:20
by Hannes_Sbg
I joined TART to be part of a group of strangers growing together to a team having an common goal. TART|Cord didn't really evolved into something above a team you can have on a good public server. The time zones made it nearly impossible to practice besides the weekends and honestly I don't like spending every Saturday and Sunday playing Pr. Or at least my girlfriend would not like me spending every weekend... ;) .

Thats why I thought of a: East-Atlantic vs West-Atlantic Tournament?

East- and West-Atlantic sounds strange but I would not call it US vs EU or something like that because I am not a fan of all this nationalism. Since PRTA has US and EU Servers matches could alternate between them like home and away matches. I don't think the ping would be a deal breaker. Home team chooses map, away team chooses side.

About that Chain of Command stuff: Only delegate tasks to the top of the chain if lower parts couldn't do the job. Like there are experienced server and forum admins in every team. Just give them admin rights to their forum and training server and let them do the work. Seeing the forum every day and not having the rights to change it was a huge pain :grin:

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-28 10:52
by Web_cole
- The losing team should pick the next map and side. This is probably an undervalued factor in the losing spiral of tournament teams in the past; the winning team wins, and picks a map that favours them, and wins and picks a map that favours them and so on.

Map choice should not be taken out of the hands of the COs, if only for the reason that the tournament admins will be the subject of unnecessary and toxic e-drama if they are in control of map picks (see PRT C8.5 as an example).


- Insurgency should not be allowed in a tournament environment for the simple reason that it is incomplete and arguably broken. Even if you like Insurgency and don't feel it is completely broken, I think you would find it difficult to maintain that the gamemode is "Working as Intended". The only potential solution I can imagine for this would be to have teams play the map twice and swap sides, but this wouldn't be feasible due to time constraints and other issues.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-28 11:18
by Cossack
Indeed, what Cole is saying - loosing team should pick the map, so they could have a chance.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-28 11:54
by sweedensniiperr
MaxBoZ wrote:Actually this happened in PRT a lot, people sign up for NATO, NATO is full, people get assigned to CATA instead. Never weakened any of the teams, bailers are probably just 20% of the people that didn't get their choice, most people actually suck it up.
Web_cole wrote:- The losing team should pick the next map and side. This is probably an undervalued factor in the losing spiral of tournament teams in the past; the winning team wins, and picks a map that favours them, and wins and picks a map that favours them and so on.
Cossack112 wrote:Indeed, what Cole is saying - loosing team should pick the map, so they could have a chance.
This would not be the case if admins picked map/random maps and the teams weren't locked to a certain side - opfor/blufor. You could even have a whole maplist from the beginning of the the tournament and just announce who plays who. The blufor lovers would play as their favorite and viceversa.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-28 14:55
by Web_cole
sweedensniiperr wrote:This would not be the case if admins picked map/random maps and the teams weren't locked to a certain side - opfor/blufor. You could even have a whole maplist from the beginning of the the tournament and just announce who plays who. The blufor lovers would play as their favorite and viceversa.
I see two main issues with that; 1. you don't have the "losers advantage" which would be inherent in the losing team picking the map and side, and 2. it takes away from the meta strategy somewhat in my eyes. What I mean by that is, if you have a map pick and you think that your CAS squad is particularly strong, you might want to pick say Black Gold Alt to leverage that advantage. Or conversely if you think the opposing team is poor in ground assets you could pick Burning Sands to try and take advantage of that.

I do agree that there probably shouldn't be set sides, in the sense of CATA - Opfor, NATO - Blufor of days gone by. Map picks should be losers pick for map and side imo.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-28 15:04
by CopyCat
Agreed with Web!

/CC

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-28 23:26
by Arc_Shielder
Web_cole wrote:I do agree that there probably shouldn't be set sides, in the sense of CATA - Opfor, NATO - Blufor of days gone by.
Personally, I think that takes away the competitiveness aspect of it. Regardless of the occasional idiotic bickering, it makes the whole thing more challenging and sweeter, does it not?

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-28 23:46
by Wicca
Arcturus_Shielder wrote:Personally, I think that takes away the competitiveness aspect of it. Regardless of the occasional idiotic bickering, it makes the whole thing more challenging and sweeter, does it not?
Eeeeer? Sweet?

Climbing up a 90 degree angle is a challenge, and its not fun. Making a tournament that fits your abilitites and gives you challanges that you can actualy accomplish is actually fun.

I dont know how its sweet though.

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-29 00:16
by CopyCat
Arc the fact that it gives some competitive feeling I do agree, but after several years and seasons of PRT NATO/CATA has became almost like enemies, and sometimes some members were too dramatic or impulsive about it (mostly verbal) which sometimes led to consequences. But if NATO / CATA will be brought back I am so in for that ;)

Re: TART - What was wrong?

Posted: 2012-07-29 01:21
by Wicca
NATO CATA, those names will remain with the official PRT. I wont go there.

I really think we are a bunch of creative people, but finding opposing "teams" is hard. And i would wish we could be more focused on the games, than the actual names.

Then again, what are we without our names? We have no emotion or connection to our identity.

Oh god its late.

Imma sleep.