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Unhealed wrote:MTLB, T-72, BMP3, BTR-60.
BSVT > Products

I kinda knew you will give me this answer, sorry.

As far as I know, all of these vehicles are using PK type machine gun (PKT version - coaxial gun, not sure about BTR-60 but I guess the same), which is using 7.62x54R.

So,
PK's 7.62x54R definitely won't fit into the RPK's magazine, because RPK is using 7.62x39mm rounds, as far as I know.

Little size comparison (image from Wiki):


From left to right: 7.62x54R, 7.62x39mm (and just in case you wanted to know the smallest is 7.62x25mm used for example in Tokarev or CZ-52).

Souls Of Mischief wrote:He asked which vehicles use 7.62x39mm in their coaxial MG's, the link you posted has a PKT - 7.62x54R.

Oh, I fucked up again. Should probably shut my mouth now I guess

Unhealed wrote:Oh, I fucked up again. Should probably shut my mouth now I guess

Don't worry about it mate, I have done similar thing a while ago with the M9 pistol (just because I can't read...). From that I learned:

Better do some research before opening your mouth because, if you are not sure, what are you talking about it is never going to end up well.

Anyways, HK21 ROCKS!!!

Unhealed wrote:Devs are planning to add British FV107 Scimitar for MEC, is that also a "mess"? Becouse if we follow your logic it is. One gun/vechicle will not create a "complete mess", and MEC is already using Saiga shotguns.

Seems that you don't understand current MEC loadout pattern . . .
You have Cold War era NATO weapons used by regular soldiers,
which is fine since Russian AKs are really becoming overused in
video games,and it doesn't conflicts with RL stuff,since G3 is most
used rifle besides AK by Arabic and Iranian armies,most of them
are locally manufacturing it,same goes for MG3 and P226.

What would be a problem is that RPK uses 7.62?39mm rounds
while all of their other weapons such as G3,MG3,SSG69 . . .
Uses 7.62?51mm NATO rounds,such "diverse" mix you suggest
fits unconventional faction weapons loadout,and there are already
few of that kind of factions in game,like I said MEC represents
regular ARMY,and regular ARMIES don't mix up handheld weapons,
they must be really poor if do something or in years long war,
so they couldn't think about standards,rather take what you can
and go to the frontline,in that cases there is not used just mixed
weaponry,rather anything you can find from WW2 to present day,
example - countless Battlefields of Africa.

Now you can say to me : But how IDF have such a diverse weapon loadout ?
Well if you look closely they are using two types of rifles (M4A1 and Tavor)
which uses same type of Stanag mags,and same 5.56 ammo.
Even Negev LMG can be fit with that kind of mags.

As for the vehicles . . . That is different story . . .
Vehicles don't work that way . . . It is not that some army just have to opt
for Western or Russian vehicles or aircraft,they use what suits their military
doctrine,or budget,so we can see for example Serbia using Both Russian Helicopters
and Gazelle Helicopters,Iran using F-14s and MiG-29s,Poland using two main battle
tanks such as Leo 2A4 and PT-91 Twardy (T-72 derivative).
So like I said,handheld weapons and vehicles are oranges and potatoes.

I don't mind inclusion of Scorpion on MEC side,it is quietly common in Iran
and of of Arabic countries,I would not mind Patton on MEC side also.

Zemciugas wrote:Since the MEC main weapon is the G3, then it would be logical to have a HK 23 with a box mag and bipod as the lmg. Interchangeable parts, same ammo type, basicly the same weapon but in a lmg setup. Would make much more sence to have it over an rpk imo. And keep the MG3 as the hmg.

The bf2 HK21 could be used as a placeholder if the proper one isn't made yet.

No, the HK23 is in 5.56 NATO. The HK21 and HK11 are 7.62 NATO like the G3.

And on top of that, the HK11/HK13 are magazine-fed and the HK21/HK23 are the belt-fed.

RPK-74 was spotted in the first 1.0 changelog as MEC auto rifle.

Curiously, the MEC auto rifle was an MG3 with no scope in the 1.0 skirmish video, though.

40mmrain wrote:Curiously, the MEC auto rifle was an MG3 with no scope in the 1.0 skirmish video, though.

I think that is not a reliable info to depend on - don't forget, they only make us see, what they want us to see...

40mmrain wrote:RPK-74 was spotted in the first 1.0 changelog as MEC auto rifle.

That's probably the answer we're looking for here.

MEC's machinegunner kit should have a KORD, like this guy



XD

no just kidding, in my opinion MEC MG kit should have H&K 121 or MG3, and the AR the HK23

The SAW wouldn't be an HK13 or HK23 unless the main rifle was switched over to the HK33 or something.

It would be the HK11 or HK21 rather than that.

Sooo if the USMC, in irl, are getting the M27 [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/shared/HK_M27.pdf], it would make sense that eventually an HK 21/(or comparable 5.56 model) would get used.

Kothra wrote:The SAW wouldn't be an HK13 or HK23 unless the main rifle was switched over to the HK33 or something.

It would be the HK11 or HK21 rather than that.

Well HK21 is belt fed and in 7.62x51 NATO same as current MG3,
and on top of all it is listed as General Purpose Machine Gun.
So adding regular belt fed version would not bring too much difference
to SAW and MG kits,personally I am more for HK11 or HK21 with adapter
for regular G3 mags or drum mags,that would make MEC SAW little bit
more distinct than their current general purpose machine gun.

Where would be the point in the HK-10 weapons (= magazine fed MGs according to the HK nomenclature) if they don't have a bigger magazine than the normal assault rifles? It would reduce the SAW to something like a bipod-rifle. If anything, it must be the HK21, but there would be little difference to the MG3 then.

The main problem is that the entire SAW concept was created for the small caliber group equipment. It didn't exist back then in the 7.62-times.

I think the easiest way to solve this would indeed be to turn the G3 the MEC has to G33 as you said, but then the actual models would be wrong (as the G33 looks different in a few details like handguard and magazine), and it would actually remove the refreshing difference in playing the MEC. So as usual in life, the easiest way is not the best.

Another emergency solution would be using the HK-11 with one of those extended G3-magazines, I think they contain 40 bullets at least, but that's still meh and does not compete with the surpressive fire capabilities of the other SAWs.

So basically I come to following conclusion: it must be the HK-21 or at least the HK-11 with a 75 round drum magazine. I don't see it as "they get an SAW which is actually more of a GPMG", it's rather "their MG is not considerably stronger than the SAW".

Given the fact that the MG3 has the higher rate of fire and is heavier, giving you a justification to keep its bullet spread lower than that of the SAW (I know it has even a "recoil increaser", at some point you have to cater the game, not realism), you can still have two different weapons, one mainly for covering fire (SAW) and the other for real fire support (MG). To not keep the MG3 being absolutely superior over the SAW, I think the HK-11 with 75 rounds drum magazine is no option. The magazine size of the SAW should be bigger than that of the MG, so that it at least can excel in the role of the weapon for surpressive fire, considering the ability to sustain fire for a longer time (especially in connection with the slower ROF).

So make it a HK-21 with the longest belt you can possible attack to the gun, I think 150 rounds of 7.62x51 is quite a lot of weight, but not impossible. Didn't the MG-42 even use 250 round belts of 8x57IS? Yeah, I know, in most cases those boxes were carried seperately by a second man. But I don't care. We have to find a solution. Unless the dev's haven't already found one.

Edit, as I hate excessive use of unexplained abbreviations myself:

GPMG = general purpose machine gun
ROF = rate of fire

I still think that SAW should be closer to Rifle than to GPMG,
and yeah it is hard in MEC case,but still I am for the G3 mag or drum.

And no,that would not only be "just bipoded G3",you forgot that it
would be G3 that actually can fire automatic bursts without flying
all over the place like a mad cow.Don't forget that this MG (HK11)
is very similar to G3,so it can be fitted with accessories like on MEC
G3s,Hendsolt Scopes and Zeiss Holographic Sights.

It's likely going to be the RPK with a PSO.

From what I've read, the HK11 can be fed from the 20-round G3 magazines or a 50-round drum magazine.

And if anything the HK11 was intended to be a SAW-type weapon. And the role is hardly new (looking at the Canadian C2 and the RPK).

Egypt,Pakistan and UAE uses the Minimi,

Kerryburgerking wrote:Egypt,Pakistan and UAE uses the Minimi,

but do they also produce them, or just import?

Kerryburgerking wrote:Egypt,Pakistan and UAE uses the Minimi,

Pakistan is not Mideast,it belongs to South Asia.
Yeah,there is a term "Broader Middle East",and Pakistan belongs to that
kind of Mideast but then you had to include Georgia,Cyprus,Turkey,
some ex-Soviet Republics into the MEC and that don't have too much sense.

To my knowledge, all the Russian vehicles that have a coaxial MG use the 7.62x54R round, not the 7.62x39mm round.[/QUOTE]

Yes this is true