AA Hipfire Thread

[40mmrain]

how is having a MWS for IR weapons an exploit? OBviously it's supposed to be included.

Secondly, missiles launch and incoming detection are functional, and auto deploy countermeasures for modern missile warning systems against IR weapons. Not sure what vehicles actually carry these actually, though

No one is asking for nerfed AA, if anything it will be stronger next release.

[40mmrain]

If you would just learn how to use your asset properly it wouldnt be a problem. Handhelds are only a threat if you loiter like you run the god damn place.

ALso there will be less Heavy anti tank next patch, so dont worry about.

[L4gi]

40mm, thats exactly why milf complains.

[Conman51]

Wow , this thread is going to the wrong direction , the problem here is the hand-held AA that have to be removed because its so over-powerd , you can make excuses , you can whine but the only real seloution is the remov all hand-held AT's / AA's from PR

hahahhahahaha.....

......HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH

.......HA!

NO.

Seriously its Hard enough being an inf guy on Kashan. And honestly how do you fear a 1 shot handheld AA but you dont even mention mutli shot AA vehicles.

[Spush]

Now for the dev's have two choices , taking this Advice sieriesly , or wasting 3 more month for another soloution , that will probobly fail like the others .

Think we'll just...........................

[Rhino]

lolz


.

[Mineral]

I think milf has the right attitude and knowledge to be our new military advisor don't you think?

Remove the engines out of all ground vehicles too. Sometimes they are quite hard to hit.

Everyday I feel happy for banning milf. Best decision of the 21st century.

ontopic: why is discussion here?

[ExeTick]

Everyday I feel happy for banning milf. Best decision of the 21st century.

I know that feeling


but to the topic, its the hipfire that have to be removed in all seriousness. I killed a havoc on PRTA I think with Stinger and it exploded maybe 30-40 meters away on one of the flares. and I killed him. I got a WTF and happy face at the same time

[Kerryburgerking]

Wow , this thread is going to the wrong direction , the problem here is the hand-held AA that have to be removed because its so over-powerd , you can make excuses , you can whine but the only real seloution is the remov all hand-held AT's / AA's from PR so the game won't be worthless for people who does CAS I almost never do use choppers on insurgency because its just a waste of time it's the same with hand-held AT's btw with the mec HAT you can kill a target below 10m , now how realistic is that ? Or th funny thing about this is that the heavy AT can run at the same speed as any other light weight kit even tho. He carry's a toe on his back , now you guys tell me how fun is to play realistic games like that .
Now for the dev's have two choices , taking this Advice sieriesly , or wasting 3 more month for another soloution , that will probobly fail like the others .

You'll only get shot down with a lock on if you're a shitty pilot.

[Rhino]

You'll only get shot down with a lock on if you're a shitty pilot.

Not entirely true, there is quite a bit of skill in using the missiles correctly (much more than just hip-firing them), knowing how to fire them and when. With handheld AA, not hip firing I can get a kill with I would say about 80% of the time, although that includes the time when I know there is very little chance of the missile from hitting so I don't fire it and save it for a possible opening or another later target.

But yes as a pilot you can massively minimise the chances of getting hit by an AA if you know where about its being launched from and/or just staying out of/far away from areas with possible AA.

[Quobble]

wow. 3 days not here and everything escalates

no srsly guys. the stinger needs to lock onto the target via IR seeker system. This system needs operating time. thats why you learn in the army to use those things properly.

at least in the german army with the "fliegerfaust training".

there is no big processor or computer inside the stinger.
you pull the ground based seeker head open from the stinger, then you flip the safety switch and then you aim at the aircraft.

seconds later your get the ready sound and then the lock on sound.
after the lock on sound you can either fire, if you have a good aim at the aircraft, or you stop and deactivate the seeker to safe battery power.

if you fire, you pull the trigger and you aim the stinger higher up. the missile flies out of the tube and heads for the target, always correction direction in order to hit close to the aircraft.

if the pilot notices the missile, he can deploy flares and try to outmaneuver it. if he has an IR seeker tracking system, he might get a warning sound or auto deployment of flares.

so just aiming the stinger or strela upwards in the sky without having it in "seeking mode" wont give the missile the chance to leave the tube.

especially because it would be really unsafe to have a fire read missile in your hand, without a target or enemy to aim at.

[Mineral]

IMO air assets in PR are only there to work with the people on the ground. And should do the same as a transport helicopter. if there is no mission then you stay at main or in a holding pattern or only do recon. too often cas gets bored, looks for targets itself, engages without proper intel and dies and blames the team. That's how jets and helicopters die 90% of the time.

on topic: IMO there should be a similar system as the hat. A long animation for a limited kit. And yeah, removing the ability to hipfire it would be nice too. Although not really realistic. I'm going to leave it to the devs cause I don't have a clue how you could code it up so that it can't lock while hipfiring.

[Mikemonster]

You can't have 'realistic' helicopters and 'realistic' AA in PR because the engine disallows one or the other.

If you fired a Stinger/Strela with a lock on tone at a heli 400m away, I seriously doubt the pilot would be able to react to a missile launch warning.

But if you made the missile slow enough to represent a realistic engagement range (and the possibility of evasion for the target), it would look comically slow.

Remember the advantage of helis like the Apache in 'real life' is a longer engagement range than their opponents (handheld AA and AAA in the form of tanks, AAA, HMG's etc. How on earth could you simulate this in PR?

Someone also mentioned that handheld AA is supposed to be mainly a deterrent in 'real life', which is probably a good point. As are flares.

[chrisweb89]

If you fired a Stinger/Strela with a lock on tone at a heli 400m away, I seriously doubt the pilot would be able to react to a missile launch warning.

From 400m in real life, or in PR? Because in PR if you are paying attention its still survivable, not a nice spot to be in for the chopper, but you can still survive if you are lucky, paying attention and good.

[Human_001]

Right. But as far as I know from reading wikipedia etc:

Aircraft will not get any warning of enemy heat seeker locking onto you. You will only get warning after missile has been launched and warning system detects the missile via heat/radar etc only if aircraft is equipped with such system.

The current in-game style pre launch warning only happens if someone aiming missile at you are emitting something in order to guide missile onto you. The shoulder fired strela or stinger won't emit anything, other than exhaust gas, in order to follow the target. It only sees and follows.

So if the complaint against AA hip firing is because you don't get any warning, that is contradicting reality.

Currently, you can aim and cause warning to go off against aircraft using strela or stinger to scare off the aircrafts, which in real life can not happen.

[Rhino]

So your argument is because the BF2 engine can't do lock on warnings for a missile launch, only when the weapon is locked on, its more realistic to fire the weapon, that is meant to track and guide itself onto a target via a heat source in an unguided mode, from "the hip" with no target tracking or guidance?...


Anyways IMO, the current lock on system (without the hip-fire) is best for both gameplay and emulating reality in the boundaries of what the BF2 engine can do.

If we wanted to sway more towards reality then we could remove the lock on warning like we removed the tracking warning from vBF2, then then this wouldn't simulate how aircraft can detect if they are being radar targeted either which many of our missiles are radar targeted, since ingame they both use the same lock on code. From a gameplay POV, this would also give aircraft very little chance of evading any missile and they would simply fall out of the sky, making them more or less useless where a good AA gunner ingame can still shoot down an aircraft pretty easily if he plays his cards right.

[Kerryburgerking]

Does the 0.5 second rule still apply?

[waldov]

A number of things could be done to make the Surface to Air engagements in PR more realistic(Im not sure which ones are actually doable here):
-Aircraft receive no warning of locks by radar or heat seeking weapons.
-AA missile speed is reduced(Not to comical levels) to increase evasion time.
-Aircraft receive a warning when Missiles or Rockets(including RPGs) are fired at them.
-Flares are automatically deployed when the Aircraft receive a warning.
-AA missiles hit chances are modified to:

-MAN-PADS/Deployed AA systems
90% Stationary/hovering target
60% Steadily moving target (Across line of fire)
15% Fast moving target (Across line of fire)
0-15% Maneuvering target
1-10% Target deploying Chaff (stationary)

-Heat seeking AAM/Vehicle based SAMs
95% Stationary Targets
75% Steadily moving targets (Across line of fire)
40% Target deploying Chaff (stationary)
20% Fast moving targets (Across line of fire)
0-20% Maneuvering target

-Radar guided AAM
100% stationary targets
85% steadily moving targets (Across line of fire)
50% Target deploying Chaff (stationary)
30% Fast moving target (Across line of fire)
0-20% Maneuvering target

-Not all aircraft have Early warning systems
-Not all aircraft have instantly deployed flares

If these additions were possible it would be amazing If not it would be interesting to know which ones are possible.

[Rhino]

1. -Aircraft receive no warning of locks by radar or heat seeking weapons.
2. -AA missile speed is reduced(Not to comical levels) to increase evasion time.
3. -Aircraft receive a warning when Missiles or Rockets(including RPGs) are fired at them.
4. -Flares are automatically deployed when the Aircraft receive a warning.
5. -AA missiles hit chances are modified to:
6. -Not all aircraft have Early warning systems
7. -Not all aircraft have instantly deployed flares

As for what's possible from the above (not saying any of it should be done at all):
1. yes
2. yes
3. no
4. no (at least not easily or practically)
5. possibly if you where willing to put enough trial and error + testing into it but missile behaviour coding isn't straight forward.
6. yes
7. no since an auto deploy isn't possible, but if it was then probably yes.