Get rid of Ammo Bags

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

I see and there is no way to limit the reloads.
Well it's great for me, how else would I get up on the wall at EJOD and spam nades on all and sundry ?

[Cyber-Couch]

I admit I exploit the ammo bags sometimes for extra health packets and grenades so I can spam them. Take them out so I can stop doing this.

[fuzzhead]

The problem with removing ammo bags, is it doesnt enforce ammo conservation ONE BIT.

RIght now ammo bags are RARELY used, you wanna know why? You will usually be dead and respawn before you run out of ammo. Its stupid, but its true.

There are other ways I think to make players more conservative with their ammo than getting rid of an important teamplay element.

Also the way I see it right now, players dont fire ENOUGH!!! There is very little supressive fire tactics being used still, and with suppresive fire actually working now its a damn shame. SOOOO many times I have to yell at my squad to fire at an enemys general direction to surpress them.... they are scared to shoot... I think part of this problem is the tracers.... the moment you start shooting your instantly pinpointed by anyone in the area...

[coolhand]

fuzzhead']
Also the way I see it right now, players dont fire ENOUGH!!! There is very little supressive fire tactics being used still, and with suppresive fire actually working now its a damn shame. SOOOO many times I have to yell at my squad to fire at an enemys general direction to surpress them.... they are scared to shoot... I think part of this problem is the tracers.... the moment you start shooting your instantly pinpointed by anyone in the area...

So true. Supression works well enough in PR because everyone knows how lethal bullets are in the mod as well as the new sounds that indicate incoming fire. I will admit that sometimes, I think twice about giving supressive fire to a general area without seeing a target because I know that somehow, someone is oging to locate me based off my tracers becuase my M16 gives it off ever 3rd round. But, I hear the tracer issue has been fixed so hopefully it will improve.

And though the ammo bags make players less aware of the value of their ammo, I don't htink the class gets used enough to really make a difference in terms of having 'too much' ammo that players don't conserve. I think the bags are fine for now and I don't really see them being an issue personally. The one thing that IS an issue for me is the M4 .

[WNxKenwayy]

I know I have problems with ammo as a sniper...he..he..he

Although honestly the biggest problem is that people still aren't concerned enough about dieing =\

[Lucid Nightmare]

That's cause there is no pain involved. Now, if we could rig up a system that gave you an electrical shock when you died, things would be very different....

[Michael_Denmark]

That's cause there is no pain involved. Now, if we could rig up a system that gave you an electrical shock when you died, things would be very different....

Technically this could be done, but i doubt if anyone would buy it.

[Valtasar]

That's depand on the price and the pain that it wiill geave you.

[Vega]

Rhino']they are limmited to 3 at the mo. The problem is, is that "ammo bags", reload "ammo bags"

This is what I was going to say. Is there really no way of changing this?

[MoZo1]

That 30 sec is that pain you are talking about. But still I sometime when run out of ammo, go out for die rather than shouting to reload me. It's because ammo bags are used so rare, and they are so far. And a thing that I haven't read before: to reload an anti tank weapon, you need that 30 sec even with 3 ammo bags under you anyway, so why not die?
Another thing, that I can't load used clips. This is bad. It would be real, to at least load the clip with the most bullets in it, so when I reload my 1st clip at 15, then I should be able to use it as the last one, because it's more than enough in single shot mode.

About the kit pickup: I see it's best use in jungles, where if you shot back an enemy with one of his own types of rifles, the others don't hear your rifle as a diferent one, so nobody will watch you. Once I've even made an enemy car driver to stop, come back, and invite me in with the horn by shoting the car... headshot!

About ammo reload at some flags: it would be real good if I could reload my rocket faaaster there. So where firebases were set up, the defending soldiers could use supressing fire, like in real. Oh, and who will rearm the fixed guns and the car's guns, if the server doesn't allow commanders, so there will not be suply drops too?

[Lucid Nightmare]

the 30 sec respawn time is great. If you are eating and playing, it allows you to eat something at your own pace and not have to rush. It also gives you some time to look at the map and see how the battle is progressing.

[WNxKenwayy]

My point is that people don't have enough motivation yet to encourage the use of supressive fire. I use it because it helps my clan mates move into position. Plus it 'blinds' the enemy with that camera blur. But I'm talking how people should be throwing smoke at every city street corner, nading rooms before they enter, covering their buddy, etc. We used one time something like 2000 rounds to kill 2 guys in a car who did a 'drive by' on us, and well over 10,000 to kill 8 guys in a mud hut. As is people wait until they have a clear shot because they want the kill more than they want to survive/have their buddies survive.

I have no suggestion of how to encourage this, reducing tracers I suppose but how realistic would that be is up to arguement.

[03(Oh-Three)]

I have no suggestion of how to encourage this, reducing tracers I suppose but how realistic would that be is up to arguement.

I think part of this problem is the tracers.... the moment you start shooting your instantly pinpointed by anyone in the area...

Both great suggestions, as getting rid of or toning down the tracers would reflect real life. In the real world, tracers are very rarely used in rifles (M16, etc.). They are more of a luxury.
However, belted ammo, like what is used in support weapons (SAW), do have tracers already loaded. Tracers are needed to help stay on target. If you carried an M249 SAW, you were handed your ammo prepackaged and ready to go in a plastic box of 200 (which is your magazine).
For everyone else who carried an M16, you were given your ammo that was packaged in cardboard boxes containing two "stripper clips" of 10 rounds each. These rounds are then inserted into your magazines. Magazines don't come preloaded as this would be expensive.
Every once in a blue moon, you would be given a box of tracers, but this certainly was not the norm.

Oh, and by the way, Grunts don't load more than 28 rounds in a magazine.
1) 30 puts too much pressure on the clip spring increasing the chance of an ill chambered round (blockage which causes a misfire).

2) Constantly loading 30 wears out the clip spring causing the same problem above.

Maybe I'll start a new thread with this info.

[fuzzhead]

Oh Three so you were a USMC grunt who served in an active hotspot??

just wondering how often you saw use of tracers in rifles, how much ammo expended, etc etc

im in agreeance with kenwayy, IRL you use alot more ammunition to kill an enemy, and also very rare to see tracers in rifles.

i was in CF reserves for 2 years and never went overseas so my opinion is not based on any combat experience just CF doctrine.

[Cyber-Couch]

Maybe beside a reloading key there could be a 'save for later' key. If you know you have a few extra shots in the current mag but are about to rambo on something, save it for later instead of tossing it.

Or just when you reload if you have bullets left in the mag, it will recycle to the end of the mag line. Maybe it's just a waste of coding?

[03(Oh-Three)]

fuzzhead']Oh Three so you were a USMC grunt who served in an active hotspot??

I served during relative "quiet", but was still issued live rounds for duty in "hotspots" and except for training, was never issued tracers.

Logistically speaking, you can see how much more of a headache it is to have to order up a mix of ammo types and then issue said ammo out to hundreds of men. Like I said earlier, however, tracers are preloaded on belted ammo and are absolutely necessary with your SAW's, 240g's, and Ma-Deuce to get on target, but in rifles...

Maybe start a thread calling out to current infantry, both Soldiers and Marines, for their take on the subject.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

I don't particularly like having no ammo because ammo is universal in this game, and if ammo was removed, how are you suppose reload the AT, GLs, or grenades?

[Shining Arcanine]

Rhino']the thing we like about ammo bags is they encourage team work. So i dunno if we will be removing them that soon...

I would imagine people having to stick together if ammo bags are removed, because they could not function as lone wolfs for very long, even if they could stay alive long enough to run out of ammo.

If ammo bags are removed, please make the defibrillators recharge themselves. Also, as already said, if ammo bags are removed, please give people much larger ammo loadouts.

[WNxKenwayy]

Well, you could just search for the last post on this topic for my rather long winded reply to this suggestion, but here we go.

I served a year in Iraq with the 101st ABN DIV. Still serving and will be doing another tour in about 6 months. I've been in 2 1/2 years as a scout. We used heavy tracer top/bottom. That means the first/last 3 rounds were tracer for marking targets/letting you know when you are almost out respectively. We also had tracer every 5th round. 5.56mm and most all other rounds, tracer burn out is 900m, that means the tracer stops burning when the round is roughly at 900m. The 5.56mm round travels at ~990m/s, which puts it at about 1 second tracer burn time, so rounds would often stick into the target (house, ground, etc) and burn for a second to help mark it.

Although I had completely forgotten about loading the mag low. I personally used H&K's steel mags, which are about $50 a piece, but you can load a full 30 rounds and have NO feed problems, they are well well worth the price. Little bit heavier, but still worth it. But you are correct, with standard issue 30 round mags everyone only put in 27-28 rounds because a full 30 would cause jams/weaken springs.

[{9thInf}GunnyMeyer]

From talking to my dad (who served in Vietnam and is Currently a Police Officer who knows and talks to Swat Officers who use these magazines) and the 2 Marine Instructors for my Highschool MCJROTC unit (both served in Iraq in line companies during the first Iraq War so they are combat veterans) the problem with loading M16 mags to the max of 30 only comes to the front when you are storing them at maximum (this is with the new magazines that the 101 Airborne Soldier said above). And I think the reason why the Devs have the Ammo boxes in the game is to simulate the fact that troops carry extra ammo for the crewserved weapons and the squad 203 (at least they did back in the 60s and 70s and it just makes sense). Maybe what you could do is have it only work to reaload those weapons or just make it not work for the person who dropped it.