Sniper Rifles: No more OHK?

[Rhino]

It varies. It can range from doing nothing to the equivalent of somebody smashing your chest in with a hammer.

Also, a 7.62 round can punch through body armor depending on the range.

Ye, very much depends on the calibre and range but think most sniper rifle rounds, even at extreme ranges would cause quite a bit of damage but ye, I'm no expert.

It should also be noted in PR that bullets do loose damage over distance, although for the L115A3's sniper round it only starts to loose damage past 900m.

Modern Kevlar + ESAPI plates shrug off .30 cal rounds like they're made out of sugar.

And this was some old as fuck body armor.

Your argument would carry far more weight if you showed actual footage under real combat conditions rather than some crappy, blury low quality video of a guy shooting himself.

If you watch documentaries from Afghanistan etc, if someone gets hit in their body armour you normally see them in quite a bit of pain and eventually air lifted out back to base to recover.

[Henrique_Dalben]

Your argument would carry far more weight if you showed actual footage under real combat conditions rather than some crappy, blury low quality video of a guy shooting himself.

If you watch documentaries from Afghanistan etc, if someone gets hit in their body armour you normally see them in quite a bit of pain and eventually air lifted out back to base to recover.

I've seen a ton of documentaries from OEF, but the "lucky" guys always get shot in the arms/legs/armpits, i've never seen a direct hit into the plates. Another thing, kevlar and plates don't have feelings, they will perform under test conditions the same way they'll behave in combat.


I hate to user Funker, but... shot twice in the body armor, no hits penetrated, still combat effective.

[Rhino]

I hate to user Funker, but... shot twice in the body armor, no hits penetrated, still combat effective.

Not really, he gets hit at 2mins, he drops his weapon in the pain and is screaming out for help and doesn't fire back after that, even thou he dose manage to pick his weapon back up. All in all, he is combat ineffective after being hit which was the point I made. Even if he felt he could go back fighting on an hr later he would most likley have been forced to go back to base and get checked out and rest.

[Henrique_Dalben]

Not really, he gets hit at 2mins, he drops his weapon in the pain and is screaming out for help and doesn't fire back after that, even thou he dose manage to pick his weapon back up. All in all, he is combat ineffective after being hit which was the point I made. Even if he felt he could go back fighting on an hr later he would most likley have been forced to go back to base and get checked out and rest.

Quote from the cameraman.

" I got a hit a total of 4 times. My helmet cam died and i made it down the mountain on my own. I was also hit in the side of my helmet and my eye pro was shot off of my face. We were doing overwatch on the village to recon and gather intel. I was point heading down the face of the hill with the LT. when we got hit. the rest of the squad was pinned down by machine gun fire. I didn't start the video until a few mins into the firefight for obvious reasons. I came out into the open to draw fire so my squad could get to safety."

"A round struck the tube by my hand of the 203 grenade launcher which knocked it out of my hands. When I picked the rifle back up it was still functional but the grenade launcher tube had a nice sized 7.62 cal bullet hole in it and was rendered useless. "

From the Funker channel

No rounds penetrated his body armor, and he made it home with no permanent injuries. This happened in Kunar Province, Afghanistan.

One round hit his helmet, the other hit his 203, by that we can safely say the other 2 hit his armor.

[RealKail]

He lived, yes. But after he got struck, he was stuck trying to keep his head down and wasn't immediately able to get back in the fight. Mind you this was from some long range MG fire. He was essentially taken out of the fight. If you want a PR comparisson, one could argue he would be sitting at the wounded screen shouting for a medic.

Now imagine going up against a sniper, somebody who's going to have the ability to hit you accurately the first time. He may hit your armor, and it may save your life, but the force of that hit and the shock that comes after is very likely to put your on the ground writhing in pain.

One could argue loss of energy over distance, but even most sniper engagements on PR only seem to get out to perhaps the 300-400 yard range. These projectiles being launched from purpose-made rifles for ranges that exceed 300-400 yards, are still going to pack quite a punch at these essentially shorter distances.

[chrisweb89]

He made it home with no permanent injuries, it doesn't say anything about the type of injuries he did sustain, or how bad they were/would have been if not treated.

Moving off from reality, do we really want a game where its headshot, or limb shot or go home? Having rifle calibers do no damage to the chest would ruin the game, especially since BF2 probably can't replicate that if the armour got hit multiple times it would probably be weaker, its either damage or no damage for BF2 I think.

[Rabbit]

I've seen a ton of documentaries from OEF, but the "lucky" guys always get shot in the arms/legs/armpits, i've never seen a direct hit into the plates. Another thing, kevlar and plates don't have feelings, they will perform under test conditions the same way they'll behave in combat.

I have, 7.62x39 at 500 meters. Dude was fine. However, I would expect the xm2010 to be able to penetrate first round within 600 meters.

[Henrique_Dalben]

He lived, yes. But after he got struck, he was stuck trying to keep his head down and wasn't immediately able to get back in the fight. Mind you this was from some long range MG fire. He was essentially taken out of the fight. If you want a PR comparisson, one could argue he would be sitting at the wounded screen shouting for a medic.

Now imagine going up against a sniper, somebody who's going to have the ability to hit you accurately the first time. He may hit your armor, and it may save your life, but the force of that hit and the shock that comes after is very likely to put your on the ground writhing in pain.

One could argue loss of energy over distance, but even most sniper engagements on PR only seem to get out to perhaps the 300-400 yard range. These projectiles being launched from purpose-made rifles for ranges that exceed 300-400 yards, are still going to pack quite a punch at these essentially shorter distances.

I understand what you're saying, but that isn't the equivalent of being in the wounded screen, because if the MG fire wasn't suppressing him and he could regroup with the rest of his squad and they faced a fight or die situation he'd be as good as they come. Ergo, the armor kept him combat effective. The only way you're NOT combat effective is if you're bleeding all over and can't even walk and hold a gun, anything else you can still fight.

Moving off from reality, do we really want a game where its headshot, or limb shot or go home? Having rifle calibers do no damage to the chest would ruin the game, especially since BF2 probably can't replicate that if the armour got hit multiple times it would probably be weaker, its either damage or no damage for BF2 I think.

Exactly, the current system is fine as it is, anything less would render armor useless, anything more we'd get super soldiers spraying 249s from the hip.

[RealKail]

The only way you're NOT combat effective is if you're bleeding all over and can't even walk and hold a gun, anything else you can still fight.

If you look at the video real close at about 1:54, he seems to have sustained an injury to his left leg. Whether it was from a cut on the rocks or a round, who can say. But there's some moderate bleeding.

Now the video makes it hard to see whether or not he was "bleeding all over", but he surely wasn't walking or holding his gun after the two minute mark. He's continually yelling "I'm hit" and never manages to return fire afterwards (at least in the video). Seems about as combat ineffective as you can get without being dead or close to it.

I'm not saying we should have one hit kills on everything, I just want some of the lethality of sniper back. With the unreliable hit boxes, even if I line up a head shot, there's no guarantee it'll detect and count as a hit. I've had head shots go through their targets and not count as a hit on stationary targets at points, at somewhat short distances.

I'm simply a firm believer in the "one shot, one kill" motto for snipers. If my round hits the intended target, I would prefer they need a medic to pick them up (though ideally he'd be the one on the floor first).

[Truism]

Modern Kevlar + ESAPI plates shrug off .30 cal rounds like they're made out of sugar.

And this was some old as fuck body armor.

This is true but also slightly irrelevant. Modern armies don't issue particularly modern body armour in most cases.

[chrisweb89]

I'm not saying we should have one hit kills on everything, I just want some of the lethality of sniper back. With the unreliable hit boxes, even if I line up a head shot, there's no guarantee it'll detect and count as a hit. I've had head shots go through their targets and not count as a hit on stationary targets at points, at somewhat short distances.

I'm simply a firm believer in the "one shot, one kill" motto for snipers. If my round hits the intended target, I would prefer they need a medic to pick them up (though ideally he'd be the one on the floor first).

Like multiple people with lots of PR experience have already stated, they never got their lethality removed, other than the rifles that one shot in 1.0, none of the rifles one shotted conventional forces in previous versions.

Snipers are fine how they are, they can be useful, and very annoying. But they also don't ruin the game for others by shutting an area down for the entire game(this may be realistic, but it isn't fun)

[Murphy]

Snipers can still control an area very easily, you may not have killed that guy but you can be damn sure he told his friends you were around. The game still reflects the effect a sniper has on morale and freedom of movement, and while you're not able to drop a guy with one shot to the chest you are still able to engage him at ranges beyond his ability to locate your position with ease.

I think sniper rifles are perfect as is, this is coming from a guy who takes sniper any time someone says "Take a cool kit" or "Take anything".

[Bellator]

Yeah, I'm throwing my Bullshit flag on this video...

The vest also looks very heavy: notice how as he fakes fainting, he actually stumbles a little -- i mean you notice that the vest weights quite a lot from his movements as he tries to stands straight again.

[Spectrium]

I'm not expert of sniper rifles but when i read some "come on just head shot them and you'll be fine" comments. And some "high-tec kevlar stuffs" comments which you cannot see even mec,idf,russian arm. I decided to say something.

First about that "headshot commentors." It's easy to hit headshot upto 600 meters. But after that it's not easy as it seems. I'm not talking about bullet drop things. I'm talking about scope magnification. For example.

I just made a search about standart 10x scope which you can see a 150cm target 1.8 mildot(dat dots on m24 scope) But on iron eagle with idf m24 you gonna see a target on 800 meters like mil dot itself. I know there is a huge difference between real snipers and pr snipers like mil / moa adjustments with press, wind, range, ballistic, target speed vs. But come on! we see target's body like dots on 800 meters with sniper rifles. Still i don't have any problem about hitting non moving targets up to 850 meters with %50 %75 accuracy(hs). If you call snipers to hit long range targets with hs. You need to change scope magnification. (one more word: please change svd dragunov magn. too it's worse than acog...)

Second thing is about that new modern kevlars. Do you think that every faction has that type kevlars? Most of them has old type plate kevlars which will gonna give you bad time with blunt trauma. But we have problems about hitting mec,russian, chinese targets which has standart body armor.

Third thing about guns. I'm not expert but sniper rifles has more muzzle veloc. than normal bullets. Normally in Turkiye g3 has 7.62x51 mm nato bullets with capable 550 600 ms m.vel. and bora-12(jng 90) sniper rifle same ammo over 860ms vel. I mean there can be difference gun stats with same ammo types. We cannot compare standart 7.62x39mm ak47 against 7.62x51 or 54 sv98 right?
So if i can get a man with g3sg1 one shot one kill at 500 meters range(torso/happened on kashan 1.0ver so many times) which has lower power than m24 sws. I should kill a man at 500 meters with m24 too.
There is another problem about one hit kills too. Sometimes even you hit your target on their face. They don't get any damage.



Sorry about mess and bad grammar. Thank you for reading my post guys.

[RealKail]

I'm not expert of sniper rifles but when i read some "come on just head shot them and you'll be fine" comments. And some "high-tec kevlar stuffs" comments which you cannot see even mec,idf,russian arm. I decided to say something.

First about that "headshot commentors." It's easy to hit headshot upto 600 meters. But after that it's not easy as it seems. I'm not talking about bullet drop things. I'm talking about scope magnification. For example.

I just made a search about standart 10x scope which you can see a 150cm target 1.8 mildot(dat dots on m24 scope) But on iron eagle with idf m24 you gonna see a target on 800 meters like mil dot itself. I know there is a huge difference between real snipers and pr snipers like mil / moa adjustments with press, wind, range, ballistic, target speed vs. But come on! we see target's body like dots on 800 meters with sniper rifles. Still i don't have any problem about hitting non moving targets up to 850 meters with %50 %75 accuracy(hs). If you call snipers to hit long range targets with hs. You need to change scope magnification. (one more word: please change svd dragunov magn. too it's worse than acog...)

Second thing is about that new modern kevlars. Do you think that every faction has that type kevlars? Most of them has old type plate kevlars which will gonna give you bad time with blunt trauma. But we have problems about hitting mec,russian, chinese targets which has standart body armor.

Third thing about guns. I'm not expert but sniper rifles has more muzzle veloc. than normal bullets. Normally in Turkiye g3 has 7.62x51 mm nato bullets with capable 550 600 ms m.vel. and bora-12(jng 90) sniper rifle same ammo over 860ms vel. I mean there can be difference gun stats with same ammo types. We cannot compare standart 7.62x39mm ak47 against 7.62x51 or 54 sv98 right?
So if i can get a man with g3sg1 one shot one kill at 500 meters range(torso/happened on kashan 1.0ver so many times) which has lower power than m24 sws. I should kill a man at 500 meters with m24 too.
There is another problem about one hit kills too. Sometimes even you hit your target on their face. They don't get any damage.



Sorry about mess and bad grammar. Thank you for reading my post guys.

I think I understood you...maybe.

Headshotting a stationary target at most visible distances isn't too hard, but very few targets I ever engage are stationary. I may have a split second to engage some targets as they properly utilize cover while moving, limiting areas of exposure.

Enhanced magnification is something I'd definitely welcome. I may go make a suggestion to have at least two levels of magnification on all sniper rifles, and having a way to toggle between the two without having to unscope. However, I can see why they have a limit on the current maximum magnification. Being able to see a target 600m out as if he were 10m from you could be considered a bit unfair. But then again, that's a key difference between a sniper and a marksman. Some marksman rifles seem to have comparable zoom to counterpart sniper rifles. Just another example of how I'd rather utilize a marksman rifle now over a sniper rifle.

[RealKail]

Let's also take into consideration the fact that two shots from a 7.62 chambered marksman rifle is enough to instantly incapacitate a player even with armor. Most of the sniper rifles we have utilize as 7.62 round and also require two shots to incapacitate a player. So at this point, why even take a sniper kit (unless you're using one of the few OHK rifles)

As I stated before, you can put out accurate fire faster with a marksman rifle compared to a sniper rifle. Plus, a lot of the marksman rifles have comparable zoom and range. Sure, one shot from these sniper rifles may get an opponent critically wounded (to black and white) but in about the same time-span you could fire off two shots from a marksman rifle and have the target actually go down.

Other than a cool hat, a pistol and binoculars, there's no major benefit to playing a sniper over a marksman.

[Spectrium]

I don't have problem hitting targets. But it's hard to pick out one target's legs or head after 500 meters. I'm just telling that they can fix it at least we can pick our target's body parts at 600 meters. They can just a bit restore the sniper rifle scopes at least what it deserves!


About ohk's... You are telling that vestments can save your life but disable you right? But come on! Aren't we calling that "wounded" situation on the game? Okay i accept sniper damages of the game. But at least our headshots drop the victim to death! That's unfair... I'm not playing sniper role for "killsteaks" but that's really annoying. If you are speaking about "vestment" reality in this game You should give reality for headshots too.. And please do not start to tell "my friend just hit head to the bullet and survived!" things.


And one more sentence: Snipers use different type ammos including "armor piercing ammo types" If you are not giving ohk to the sniper rifles then give anti material sniper rifles like m95 as50 vs to sniper asset..

[robbo]

One Hit from the any of the requested Sniper kits should be a OHK in my opinion. Theirs only 2 of these kits on each team so 4 rifles that kill instantly is hardly a game changer, yes it would be very annoying to be the squad on the receiving end of said rifle but hey thats how it is IRL.

I agree that making a targets head out at range is difficult 600m + which is hardly the snipers max range, the solution seems to be make sniper rifles OHK or increase the Zoom to make it easier to identify the head/kill zones.

DMs are currently better sniper they have better follow up shots and are overall more effective.