Project Reality Forums

Rabbit wrote:Do you know how many times that idea has been posted by people? Its not "new".

You're right. I remember a suggestion like that. I dismissed it because it suggested real 'great' zoom, and that seemed silly to me, at the time.

I'm thinking 'tiny zoom' (<1.5x) vs. 'no zoom at all'.

I'll approve the suggestion I have in mind.

Rabbit wrote:Do you know how many times that idea has been posted by people? Its not "new".

indeed...

T.A.Sharps wrote:Would it be possible to give a double click for aiming?

Click once, regular vision, as it is now, and then a second click and you zoom in to a distance focus. It would only really need to be about a 2x magnification.

Some of the scopes do this already with multi magnification scopes, would it be just as easy to implement a multi-magnification system with iron sights?

Its possible yes, its also (should be) possible to use the backup sights system to switch between zoomed and unzoomed modes but as I've said before, I'm seriously not a fan of the idea, it destroys immersion.

I think we need less scopes and more iron sights/rds/holos or w/e. Makes for funnier firefights.

T.A.Sharps wrote:Would it be possible to give a double click for aiming?

Click once, regular vision, as it is now, and then a second click and you zoom in to a distance focus. It would only really need to be about a 2x magnification.

Some of the scopes do this already with multi magnification scopes, would it be just as easy to implement a multi-magnification system with iron sights?

If it's 2x it makes the F88/F89 scope (1.5x) even more worthless. And either way, it's still zoom for iron sights.

Wheres_my_chili wrote:Also, Rhino pretty much confirmed what I thought anyway, that the reason that we don't have a zoom like we do in arma is because some members Dev team don't "like" it. That's an attitude, relax.

Since you didn't read Rhino's post beyond not telling you "why of course we'll make it however you like, here's your DEV tags, OH MY GOD, WHAT WERE WE THINKING?!"

'[R-DEV wrote:Rhino;1958240']I should also point out we have tried it in some basic tests and it feels really, really bad all round especially from an immersion POV but also from a combat one unless your sniping at far targets.

Also it should be noted even if we did put some zoom on Iron sights or w/e, the people with the bigger, better monitors would still have a large, clear advantage over people on tiny screens, they would just have an even bigger one than they do now.

Since this is basically a "give binoculars back or do this instead" thread, why is this still open, again?

Do you guys know how BUIS work? It requires to have different scripts and indexes for every single weapon(every different version, scope or ammo is considered as different weapon). For all few thousands of weapons. If you want go ahead and create new indexes and scripts for thousands of weapons. And then listen to people complaining that it's bad and you should revert it. Because there all always people who are bitching about things on that you speed long time, and didn't get even single buck on it.

As for suggestion itself, it was talked and tested before behind close door, and I didn't liked any of effects. I personally like how ARMA did it, but it will be simply hardcoded for us, as we don't have access to source code(And even if we would get, we would probably have long time to finding out how to implement it to don't fuck something else up). If some community moder would find nice way of implementing it, we can look into it again, although I don't think we will found anything that will work well on this engine.

'[R-DEV wrote:Moszeusz6Pl;1958909']Do you guys know how BUIS work? It requires to have different scripts and indexes for every single weapon(every different version, scope or ammo is considered as different weapon). For all few thousands of weapons. If you want go ahead and create new indexes and scripts for thousands of weapons. And then listen to people complaining that it's bad and you should revert it. Because there all always people who are bitching about things on that you speed long time, and didn't get even single buck on it.

As for suggestion itself, it was talked and tested before behind close door, and I didn't liked any of effects. I personally like how ARMA did it, but it will be simply hardcoded for us, as we don't have access to source code(And even if we would get, we would probably have long time to finding out how to implement it to don't fuck something else up). If some community moder would find nice way of implementing it, we can look into it again, although I don't think we will found anything that will work well on this engine.

...? There are roughly fifty weapons in-game with BUIS.

Please give the iron-sights some semblance of a zoom. It's been one of my biggest gripes about PR since i started playing years ago. Now the fact most scoped rifles have a BUIS option has eliminated the small perk to ever having iron-sights in the first place.

I don't think the iron sights need any zoom, but perhaps they could be thinned a bit to help counter the issue of engaging targets at a moderate distance. Or, at the very least thin up the front sight post some.

All in all, I don't see them as being as bad as they're made out to be in this thread. I've gotten kills around 200m with the iron sights, though some could say a few of those shots were lucky guesses.

Solid Knight wrote:...? There are roughly fifty weapons in-game with BUIS.

He means if we would use a 'buis' like system for iron sights, each weapon with iron sight would require similar work which was done on the BUIS enabled weapons. And if you would count all our iron sight weapons then yes, it would be over a 1000.

T.A.Sharps wrote:You like the same effect in ARMA, but in PR it would be the end of the world?

ARMA 2's engine and graphics are an order of magnitude better than the BF2 engine.

T.A.Sharps wrote:I still fail to see how just giving the iron sight kits a 1.5-2x zoom feature would be as dramatic as all this.

Because you're not a coder who has to spend time to program it for free, or you otherwise do not have your name on the product that you want to look good / play well, the way you want it to.

T.A.Sharps wrote:Sniper rifles and DM kits already have this.

If you're referring to the iron sight variants of sniper and DM rifles, then they shouldn't have it. Thanks for bringing that error to the DEVs' attention. I don't think they should be in game in the first place and the alt kits for those factions should vary in some other way.

And if a zoom is given to all iron sight/BU sight rifles, that opens the can of worms of "why can't we do this for pistols/SMGs/other weapons since we can't have binoculars?"

[R-CON]Mineral wrote:He means if we would use a 'buis' like system for iron sights, each weapon with iron sight would require similar work which was done on the BUIS enabled weapons. And if you would count all our iron sight weapons then yes, it would be over a 1000.

Wouldn't need to since variable zoom levels with right-click is supported.

Solid Knight wrote:...? There are roughly fifty weapons in-game with BUIS.

They are now over 200 indexes for BUIS weapons, so there are like 100 weapons itself. We are talking about using BUIS system to give zoom to ironisht, which would require adding such system to every weapon we have in PR.

T.A.Sharps wrote:You like the same effect in ARMA, but in PR it would be the end of the world?

You said it was hard coded for us, but you also said how it could be done? However, you didn't mention the other ways to do it.

I still fail to see how just giving the iron sight kits a 1.5-2x zoom feature would be as dramatic as all this. Sniper rifles and DM kits already have this. The only way people would not like it is if someone wants to come on here and complain that it is too easy to get killed by AK or something, which I rather have than the whole team with iron sights being handicapped.

What is the effect that was so horrible?

You almost make it sound like PRBf2 is just done, and its no longer worth continuing on working with it?

I said that method we know is very hard coded, and I don't know any other method. I said, that if you know how to implement such thing do it, and stop complaining. PR:BF2 is still worth contribution, but from what you are saying, you probably don't have idea how implementing such thing would look like. I also don't have to much experience with hacking, but I know some basic about it, and analyzing whole bf2 engine on low level(we don't have source code, so we can't analyze it on higher), found spot when we could add such option, and then write function that will do it is a very fucking hard way. One simple instruction in C++ can be multiple level one in Assembler. What's why nobody is writing whole programs in Assembler, it's just too time consuming and worthless. If you want go ahead, and find it. Something like that require huge amount of experience and we don't have many people on team who could do this, and I'm not even sure if they would manage to do such hard task. If you are experienced hacker go ahead and do it. Or find other way around, about which we don't know.

Solid Knight wrote:Wouldn't need to since variable zoom levels with right-click is supported.

Very true, but I think having to click through all zoomlevels is pretty bad. It's fine when you're just checking it out by yourself, when not in combat, but when under fire / in CQB it should always be 1 click to zoom in or out.

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]AfterDune;1959201']

Solid Knight" wrote:Wouldn't need to since variable zoom levels with right-click is supported.

Very true, but I think having to click through all zoomlevels is pretty bad. It's fine when you're just checking it out by yourself, when not in combat, but when under fire / in CQB it should always be 1 click to zoom in or out.[/QUOTE]

Also afaik you can't make different zoom speeds for different steps, so if you need 0.4s to scope in, you will need also 0.4 to change zoom, and only then you can scope out. So if you pop out from corner and spotted that they are too much enemies there and you will need to fall back, you will need to wait 0.4s before you can run away, as you need to click through all levels of zoom. This will be very big disadvantage and will probably piss off even players who wanted to add it in this way.

It's no so much deal with sniper rifles, because they are infective in close range, when this disadvantage shows the most, and nobody sane is using it this way, and when you want to quickly run away, you can just switch to pistol, as sniper rifle wouldn't be effective after moving.

A BUIS like system would be best if we ever want to implement zoom on iron sights, because if we implement a little zoom doing it the BF2 way, there will be another group that dislikes the reduced FOV - or the zoom altogether.

Unless you can make the zoom really tiny, but juuuust effective enough to make a difference, without reducing the FOV much. Step up, try it out and show videos of your accomplishments.

[R-DEV]Moszeusz6Pl wrote:They are now over 200 indexes for BUIS weapons, so there are like 100 weapons itself. We are talking about using BUIS system to give zoom to ironisht, which would require adding such system to every weapon we have in PR.

Couldnt they all use the same index? when looking at the buis code it looks like the different indexes are only needed since on real BUIS you need to change the animations. For ironsight zoom it would still be same animation.
If thats not the case, you could always make a small tutorial of how to implement a new BUIS into the system and throw it into community modding section as community task. Someone might be bored enough to do it then

We're not going to discuss the "we need zoom, because we have no binocs anymore" thing all over again.

Come up with something that makes everyone happy, show it in a video and ask what the community thinks of it. If nobody's willing to do make a proof of concept, there is no point in keeping this thread open.