Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

[Archosaurus]

when you give a suggestion to your SLs also provide an analysis on why. works for me, event he most zealous of leaders i've worked with have responded well with that approach. if you give them a good reason to take your suggestion more often than not they will.

"Hey SL, I don't think this is working man, the whole team is just bunched up and running into the capzone in one line. I think we should flank from Hotel....7."

"You wanna go into Hotel 7 and look at some trees?" *squaddie laughs*

Then I asked them if I could lead, SL just said "Do you even know how good I am?"

[z0MbA]

I only join a squad if the SL is someone I recognize as someone whos been playing for a long time, like old TG regulars.

otherwise I just play insurgency with my buddy to blow off steam

[Archosaurus]

I only join a squad if the SL is someone I recognize as someone whos been playing for a long time, like old TG regulars.

otherwise I just play insurgency with my buddy to blow off steam

My problem is that I have to live in Europe for the time being, and the only good SL's I know who are on when I'm on seem to be a one-chance opportunity as I never see them again or they're on during night time hours here, restricting PR to weekends only and even then it's a mixed bag.
So my solution was to try and find a way to virtually every time get a good game, but it's not working.

[Wicca]

My problem is that I have to live in Europe for the time being, and the only good SL's I know who are on when I'm on seem to be a one-chance opportunity as I never see them again or they're on during night time hours here, restricting PR to weekends only and even then it's a mixed bag.
So my solution was to try and find a way to virtually every time get a good game, but it's not working.

Arch, why dont you join my teamspeak. Ill let you meet some good SLs.

However, this is how I see squadleading.

Depending on the skill of the people in my squad, how long I have played with them, and how long they have played PR really depicts how I play.

I sometimes get a completly green squad, some not played more than 1 month to the 2nd week or less. Maybe 1 competent player I know.

I play defense, I explain to each SM where to watch, what to do if this and that happens. And then we wait, and I tell jokes.

If the squad is compromised of people I know well, they are good individual players aswell as squadplayers. I can be more aggressive, not be so strict on position and sector.

What you need is a clan. Some players you know that you can get closer to. 3dac, od-s whatever other clan is around these days. It really comes down to the level of skill the players in your squad have.

I wish you were in my squad, you seem great. And I don't mind squadmembers suggesting to me where I put my marker. Sometimes I know so little compared to people further up, so I give people the opportunity to give directions to everyone through me.

I don't particularly like people giving orders over me, but if people are direct and speak to me about what they want, I will respect that.

I think I saw you on PRTA today. Would be nice to see you there again, maybe you can try joining my squad?

[Archosaurus]

Arch, why dont you join my teamspeak. Ill let you meet some good SLs.

However, this is how I see squadleading.

Depending on the skill of the people in my squad, how long I have played with them, and how long they have played PR really depicts how I play.

I sometimes get a completly green squad, some not played more than 1 month to the 2nd week or less. Maybe 1 competent player I know.

I play defense, I explain to each SM where to watch, what to do if this and that happens. And then we wait, and I tell jokes.

If the squad is compromised of people I know well, they are good individual players aswell as squadplayers. I can be more aggressive, not be so strict on position and sector.

What you need is a clan. Some players you know that you can get closer to. 3dac, od-s whatever other clan is around these days. It really comes down to the level of skill the players in your squad have.

I wish you were in my squad, you seem great. And I don't mind squadmembers suggesting to me where I put my marker. Sometimes I know so little compared to people further up, so I give people the opportunity to give directions to everyone through me.

I don't particularly like people giving orders over me, but if people are direct and speak to me about what they want, I will respect that.

I think I saw you on PRTA today. Would be nice to see you there again, maybe you can try joining my squad?

Sure, I'll join in some day.
Perhaps, but I'm not sure I actually went on PRTA yesterday. I saw it in the server list so I probably did. My ingame name is Archosaurusrev and nothing else. EDIT: Forgot I have the rev in there.
If you mean today today, as in my timezone today, very unlikely, I don't play PR and lose sleep.

About the clan, I've just never got invested. The squad I was in during "that" game said their clan was making a server, so if it goes up, I might actually join up with them, but otherwise, how about you introduce me to some people first?

About squadleading: You haven't squadleaded until your squad was top 1 in a team where no one spoke your language, nor were they interested in what was happening .

[Gracler]

If a Squad-leader is not breaking any server rules I don't see why you shouldn't follow his orders no-matter how crazy they are. I don't see any problem with a squad member pointing out an overlooked detail in the SL. plan but if the SL decides that it is not important then let it be and follow along or quit the squad if you can't handle it.

There is nothing worse than back-seat squad leaders constantly correcting the Squad Leader in an attempt to make him look stupid or whatever reason, and even if the back-seat leader may have a point I would defend the Squad Leader decision.
There is a fine line between back-seat squad leaders and a friendly advice.

An advice should be given when there is a lack of orders being given, but if the squad leader is handing out orders left and right you should generally shut up and follow along or it will confuse the hell out of everyone of what to do.

[IWI-GALIL.556FA]

So, what do you do when the whole team is seemingly full of "Noooo, I'm the best player !" SL's?
Just leave like I did?

Make smart-*** remarks about being the better SL and post a subtle brag thread on the forums.

Pretty much what I've gathered from this thread...

[Archosaurus]

Text.

I didn't want to mention who it was because I didn't have enough information, nor the need, to confirm that you were in the wrong, it was just my personal standpoint.
I took it as an opportunity to bring it up, not to attack you, so I would have liked it if you didn't have a say in this.
I never assumed you were bad or anything, mostly because I didn't even know who you are in the first place, but your inability to first off even decide what kit the squad needs to perform your current order, and your inability to lay out a real plan and just keep blaming the team and complain about having a "shoot me sign on your head" is what made me impatient.
The "Are you serious?" was not there to provoke a fight, I thought you were sarcastically making a joke referencing how **** the situation was, but when you said you weren't kidding, I just assumed at the moment you were some newbie who joined a clan and now thinks he's hot stuff so to speak of, so to not bog you down and cause any **** I just left because the server wasn't suiting me, that's all.

Next time recognize that I wanted to leave the person I'm talking about anonymous for a reason.

Also, I came in the squad because I got abruptly kicked, but then left after short notice, on my own.

Second, aggressive foot recon AROUND THE FLAG. There was no need for a GL rifleman, with weaponry that cannot reach the enemy on the hills, to be bogging the team down in the mosque. My SL wanted me to go out and lob grenades at known enemy positions and compromise fighting positions. When I was needed there, I returned, and scored about half of the kills at the entrance just because I was outside in a good position, not inside.
The squad was at full strength and knew what they were doing so me being there, continuing to lay out ineffective fire at the infantry on the hills and not luring them in the city and then killing them, would have made us capturing the flag a lot harder. It's called advanced play, just go watch some Shacktactical PR videos.

Oh and about tactics, I suppose the flanking maneuver would not be too effective.
But it's still up to you to recognize that running in was just not working, no matter how bad the team, and something like a HMG might work.
Either way, the area attack was probably pretty good. Better than running into the fire at least. I suppose I should have been more patient and stuck around for 20 minutes or so to see what you did, but I had had my share of absolutely horrible teams that I was on very low hopes. Nothing personal.

Oh and of course I apologize for even involving you in this. Next time I have a problem, I'll be more general about it, but I don't know it'd work if I don't offer examples.

[HunterMed]

I didn't want to mention who it was because I didn't have enough information, nor the need, to confirm that you were in the wrong, it was just my personal standpoint.
I took it as an opportunity to bring it up, not to attack you, so I would have liked it if you didn't have a say in this.
I never assumed you were bad or anything, mostly because I didn't even know who you are in the first place, but your inability to first off even decide what kit the squad needs to perform your current order, and your inability to lay out a real plan and just keep blaming the team and complain about having a "shoot me sign on your head" is what made me impatient.
The "Are you serious?" was not there to provoke a fight, I thought you were sarcastically making a joke referencing how **** the situation was, but when you said you weren't kidding, I just assumed at the moment you were some newbie who joined a clan and now thinks he's hot stuff so to speak of, so to not bog you down and cause any **** I just left because the server wasn't suiting me, that's all.

Next time recognize that I wanted to leave the person I'm talking about anonymous for a reason.

Also, I came in the squad because I got abruptly kicked, but then left after short notice, on my own.

Second, aggressive foot recon AROUND THE FLAG. There was no need for a GL rifleman, with weaponry that cannot reach the enemy on the hills, to be bogging the team down in the mosque. My SL wanted me to go out and lob grenades at known enemy positions and compromise fighting positions. When I was needed there, I returned, and scored about half of the kills at the entrance just because I was outside in a good position, not inside.
The squad was at full strength and knew what they were doing so me being there, continuing to lay out ineffective fire at the infantry on the hills and not luring them in the city and then killing them, would have made us capturing the flag a lot harder. It's called advanced play, just go watch some Shacktactical PR videos.

Oh and of course I apologize for even involving you in this. Next time I have a problem, I'll be more general about it, but I don't know it'd work if I don't offer examples.

You cant really post a thread like you did and not hear the other side. You posted alot of assumptions and opinions on another person - so it is good that he posted.

So yeah posting more general would be better, like you say yourself. But seeing all the replies were very general and gave an idea how others approach the situation you had it is fine.
But the SL in question has every right to give his pov on this little story obviously.

Not that this story/game is particularly interesting... Not even that you killed so many or lead a squad once and made no.1 or something.
That kind of "stories" take away credibility from you to be honest I think.

It just makes you look like you have to proof that you are better than anyone or here the other guy in the story.
So I would stop that in a general discussion thread or soon the thread will be only about YOU and your skill or the lack of it... Which nobody wants I think.
Especially if you want to point out that OTHER players are egotistical you should not make your point by saying how good you are and how bad others are.


Pointing out a kit is not really that important in my opinion. If the new SM spawns in, he cant really take any kit that is opposing the objective most of the time.
He cant even take marksman lol, so as long as the guy has a rifle and I DONT NEED anything special I am also fine with any kit the new guy likes to take. I dont like to micromanage that much and only do it when it is really needed.

[Archosaurus]

Damn you guys write a lot.

Nah, it's not that I don't want him to give his view, it's good that I now know that he wasn't the kind of person I was talking about, but I didn't want to specifically bring bad rep to anyone. It was a misunderstanding and had I mentioned him specifically, it would not have been smart. Then it'd be an attack, you know what I mean?

Anyway, there are some people like what I mentioned though.
From what I gathered from the replies which don't try to just make the situation worse, leaving a really bad team and squad when everyone is doing bad seems to be the best.
Finding your own group you can rely on also is a thing, even in PR where the community is, on the right servers, quite good.

[KillJoy[Fr]]

[Nate.]

I see your point Archosaurus. But when Squadleading, Squadmembers often make the game miserable for the SL. This is why most players tend to stick to the guys they already know and played with in the past. I suggest you do the same. Find a group or clan and play with them on a regular basis.

Here's a compilation of typical Squadmembers:

1. "SL can I go and rearm this Grenade I just threw. There's ammo 3 keypads away?"

2. "SL I am just gonna go and flank them 3 keypads wide okay?"

3. "SL I took a Sniper because we're playing in this close quarters combat map!"

4. "Lets attack! Some noob squad should defend. Not us"

5. "I'm bored! Let's attack!"

6. "I am wounded - I am gonna spawn at the FOB on the other side of the map and mind my own business because no, you will never be able to place a rally. - Oh revive? No, I already gave up"

7. "Yes I am holding the staircase as you told me, but I like to casually walk around the whole building and get shot. Afterwards, I won't wait 2 minutes until I go into combat again"

8. Hm, it's just a squad of publics. I better join and take the coolest kit until someone else steals it

9. "Squadleader, be advised, enemy Infantry spotted in Keypad Alpha eleven keypad five subkeypad 3, 1.200 metres away, 1 infantry. REQUEST IMMEDIATE CAS SUPPORT. OVER. OUT."

10. "Yes, understood. Wilco" No actually I know it much better, so I'm just gonna do what I think is best.

11. "Rifleman? You sure you don't need a grenadier?"

12. "I could also take the Engineer. Or the HAT. I am pro with the HAT. It is very useful in a 8-man-squad. Okay I will take Rifleman as you told me 5 times. Ooooops, I picked GPMG instead"

And finally:

This guy sucks, I am much better than him. I am just gonna leave him with the other n00bs so they can fuck things up. Better take my kit with me aswell.

[HunterMed]

Classics...
I always love #9. So funny
But that also goes for SLs.

"We need CAS, ARMOR, SUPPORT! We are alone in the middle of nowhere, leave everything. We need support NOW!"

[L4gi]

Number 8 sounds about right. ALL THE KITS!

[Vicious302]

I'm all for teamwork but 9/10 clans are like those guy who have a big truck and never haul anything in them but a pair of balls where the hitch goes... this all compensates for what they clearly lack down there... same goes with clan tags... the bigger the clan tag and the more buddies...more likely they are arrogant and just suck... so stay away from "clans" because there are none.. because there are no clan wars or any real clan based competition and even if there was PR isn't designed around skirmish or even 20 v 20. CLOWNS ::ENDRANT::

[Nate.]

more likely they are arrogant and just suck... so stay away from "clans" because there are none.. because there are no clan wars or any real clan based competition and even if there was PR isn't designed around skirmish or even 20 v 20. CLOWNS ::ENDRANT::

You clearly live on the periphery of PR.

[Steckdose200]

For reference, last game I played yesterday, I suggested the SL lets me go out into the city we were defending and do my thing, which is aggressive foot recon ie: killing whole squads before they get to my squad.

He says no, but the squad was so composed and all had mics etc. so I said fine, you call the shots.

I follow with them and spot an opportunity to go out of the mosque we were in and prove my worth, so to say.

I'll check out outside and be back in a minute I said.

Full enemy squad dead later, SL said "You're doing a good job, keep doing whatever you're doing." and through me covering their East flank completely from any enemy even getting in, they could do what they want at the mosque, which was armor hunting and directing out IFV's fire. We also did a hit and run on an enemy FOB with a Humvee and they destroyed it with their own artillery, hah. GG's were had and so on.

That is when an SL recognizes that his original plan does not work as well as a squadmate's, and that the squad is competent enough to adapt. The squad I was in right now was not led by that kind of SL.

So, what do you do when the whole team is seemingly full of "Noooo, I'm the best player !" SL's?
Just leave like I did?

WHAT? Ok I will just assume you were playing in my squad at bijar canyons.

SO, I join the server, and this is 10 min before we lose on burning sands, The MEC team that I am on got totaly DESTROYED, armour hopeless, CAS wasted, only one FOB at VCP (our last flag).

So next round (Bijar Canyons), I try to unfuck the team by making a "MUM MECH INF" squad. So we spawn and take a Namer aswell as a HAT, since the Namer is hopeless against armour and I didn't want to rely on our Armour and CAS (seeing last round) only.

We capture our first Objective Bridge (we are the only ones), and drive towards West City of Bijar. I ask the Transsquad If they can drop me creates at verious positions. No reply.

We reach the TV-Station. I wanted to build a back-up FOB and so I call in Trans. No reply.
I let the Infantry let by my NCO take West City, while staying back with my Namer, still tring to get some suppleys for a FOB. I ask diffrent squads if I could have atleast 1 create of there Logitrucks. No replies. I check Mumble settings, my squadmates can here me and the Commander aswell! However the commander was incapable to speak to trans aswell, so I I decided to take the Mosque in the eastern part of the City (next flag). So finally hen we reach the Mosque, the Transsquad (with a new leader) replies to me and brings me a create. Now we have a perfect postion. We have a good House to defend. the Apc is closeby and has a perfekt view over the city and my HAT gunner can take out enemy Armour comming into the City. Now I get a question like this: "Can I leaf the mosque and hunt some enemys?" NONONO! You are not allowed to run away! I want all my guys defending the flag. the next flag would be Radio Station, that can not be captured by lonewolfing from the City.

I try to talk to every single squad, to coordinat them to attack and us to defend. Apperantly only Commander and CAS got mics. (Trans crashed and left already)
So I have two options, I attack with my Mech INF or I defend the City. So we stay and defend for the first part, maybe the other squads will eventually start doing something.

So we take down a FOB, mutible squads, a BMP and a Tank.
Since I was the Driver of the Namer and we took a hit from a Tank, we decide to go rtb. On the way out of the city we get killed by an Enemy Havok. My Gunner has to go and so I have 6 guys in the City and I myself am at mainbase. I take a truck and drive to my squad. I spook to CAS that I want to use there bombs to help my squad take the radio station.

But before we go to radio station I change vehicle to an humvve (faster) and drive up to an enemy FOB in the Moutains North of us, this is were the enemy bomb there own Firebase and we take a BMP down. After that we died due to our luck running out and well entranced enemys.

So after that we spawned at main, took another Namer and destroyed a 2. FOB. I set an Area Attack on Radio, Call in CAS, let my NCO lead the Infantry towards the Flag and let my gunner of the APC give suppressing fire on the enemys. Basicly a perfect attack, something you good make a movie about, BUT Round is ending... (anti-climatic I know :-/, but we won anyway)

After the Round I talk to my NCO on TS. We both agreed that everything went better then expected, since we could have gotten way worth pubbies. Every single one did good-ok and you cant really wish for more. However we remarkt taht you had been the most enjoing Squadmember by far. Now This is no offense. I like squadmembers that talk, but I don't want to be asked every 2 seconds, if you could lonewolf the enemys now. Why did you even join my squad? If I remember correctly you got like 7-1 or 9-1 in K/d. So is it really that bad playing in a squad?

- Steckdose200

[Portable.Cougar]

You guys are all really good.

There is such a thing as too much back seat SLing.

[Vicious302]

I can't even reply to that whole thing steckdose because you guys are now having a hypothetical conversation about a round that neither of you immediate know was the same or not... LOL.

I usually have more problems with arrogant squad members then squad leaders, but maybe that's because I'm a squad leader all the time.

But Nate I'm wondering what this clan filled server of skill you play on is and where I can find these L33T soldiers so I can kill them, win 3 rounds as top player, top squad, post my screenshots and move on with this discussion. Clan battles are the periphery in my opinion because your talking about a 400 PR players max, vs. the 4000 public players that keep the servers filled. Forgotten Honor and Tournaments are not was I was talking about they are exclusive communities that keep to themselves and seldom leach their team play onto public servers, from 8 years of playing there I can tell you that. They also did clan battles, which I was part of, and infantry game play is neither realistic or fun and that's why we don't have 247 infantry servers or organized clan matches that everyone knows about.