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'[R-CON wrote:Psyrus;2013266']I'm pretty sure they are close to their real values [here are the only real differences between the two]:





AT4 Velocity: 290m/s

The RPG's one was obviously averaged because I'm pretty sure BF2 can't do a 2-stage burn

AT-4 starts at maximum burn right away?

ComradeHX wrote:AT-4 starts at maximum burn right away?

Did you bother to read the wiki links?

[R-CON]Psyrus wrote:Did you bother to read the wiki links?

I tried.

But wiki says 220m/s.
290m/s for the old AT-4 that isn't labeled CS.

So we have obvious BluFor bias here(using different version AT-4's muzzle velocity instead of the correct one, while RPG-7 gets the somewhat correct number).

ComradeHX wrote:I tried.

But wiki says 220m/s.
290m/s for the old AT-4 that isn't labeled CS.

So we have obvious BluFor bias here(using different version AT-4's muzzle velocity instead of the correct one, while RPG-7 gets the somewhat correct number).

Err, it is CS in-game.

Human_001 wrote: As we can see already, INS faction needs and is for more experienced gamer.

I see what you mean but the opposite should really be true. INS are not trained as marines or rangers.
They are given a rifle with brief instructions on how to reload literally, and off they go and as such INS by definition should be the spray & pray gamemode.

Human_001 wrote: Ofcourse you can't engage all scoped foe with non scope on equal footing. I think even irl there is distance where you can use iron sight effectively, then beyond that where you need an optic or optic will have clear advantage. Otherwise what is the reason why people invent scopes and use them?

Every single INS map is far too open with little to no cover at all so there's no space left for any tactics. Yes we can hide in buildings but APC's - CAS - Snipers already got that and if you manage to slip out of a building unnoticed the laser accuracy AR 15 will make sure you don't get far

Human_001 wrote:As with the APC HE spam, I believe that is very realistic.

No it isn't because they don't need to worry about any damage to the civilian property or wait for green from their superiors to engage. They don't even have to worry about civilians either as it simply pays to kill one or two civilians if they can clear a building full of RPG insurgents.
Then there are the convenient, wide roads that can fit two apc's side by side and allow them to patrol the entire city. When the roads are mined they still got plenty of open fields everywhere where they can spam all the HE till they run out.

Originally Posted by RPG7
ObjectTemplate.projectileTemplate rpg_rocket
ObjectTemplate.keepProjectiles 15
ObjectTemplate.velocity 261
ObjectTemplate.itemIndex 4
ObjectTemplate.delayToUse 8.5

The shot/s fired as well the aiming or compensating for recoil should be determined by the person firing and not by artificial delays. I am baffled by why the settle time is much higher on the RPG than on the AT4.

HunterMed;2013331 wrote: The special kits should be requestable from caches or hideouts. The kits are so rare anyway, so I dont see a big balance issue. Like sniper, arty IED,...

I don't understand that decision either. I've been very critical of insurgency lately but everything about it just seem to be in reverse of how it should be.

Blufor can request kits from APC or the magical little supply boxes that store all the medical supplies, multiple AT4 launchers, C4 explosives along with shotguns, heavy LAT kits, machine guns and the ammo to go with, yet getting hands on RPG that supposed to be as common as the AK's can prove difficult and that's not to mention ammo

X-Alt wrote:Err, it is CS in-game.

Err, in-game speed is wrong; because it's 290m/s.

CS is 220m/s.

Beee8190 wrote:The shot/s fired as well the aiming or compensating for recoil should be determined by the person firing and not by artificial delays. I am baffled by why the settle time is much higher on the RPG than on the AT4.

The settle time isn't higher, that delaytouse is what the reload/load timer uses. While the AT4 doesn't have to load anything because it's a single item (rocket + tube) the RPG has to load a rocket before it can be fired. That's where the difference comes from.

ComradeHX wrote:Err, in-game speed is wrong; because it's 290m/s.

CS is 220m/s.

I'm not sure if the in-game is CS or not, I don't know how everyone knows, but I'll bring it up with the team and if it should be 220, that's what it'll become.

[quote=""'[R-CON"]Psyrus;2013579']The settle time isn't higher, that delaytouse is what the reload/load timer uses. While the AT4 doesn't have to load anything because it's a single item (rocket + tube) the RPG has to load a rocket before it can be fired. That's where the difference comes from. I'm not sure if the in-game is CS or not, I don't know how everyone knows, but I'll bring it up with the team and if it should be 220, that's what it'll become.[/quote]

I just checked in-game; it says CS on the icon.

Would be more realistic as firing it will not kill you in-game if you fired from a building.
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ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModZoom 0.13
^This makes RPG-7 a lot more inaccurate, does it not?
[quote="Beee8190""]I see what you mean but the opposite should really be true. INS are not trained as marines or rangers.
They are given a rifle with brief instructions on how to reload literally, and off they go and as such INS by definition should be the spray & pray gamemode.
[/quote]
"Training" level of insurgents vary.
But you know it's not balanced when it takes much more effort in one side to win than it does for the other side.
Civi rule change took away the last deterrent to BluFor asset/mortar-spam. Now it's very one-sided unless BluFor really suck(charge into city with APC/tank and gets blown up in 5 minutes, for example).

Beee8190 wrote: No it isn't because they don't need to worry about any damage to the civilian property or wait for green from their superiors to engage. They don't even have to worry about civilians either as it simply pays to kill one or two civilians if they can clear a building full of RPG insurgents.
Then there are the convenient, wide roads that can fit two apc's side by side and allow them to patrol the entire city. When the roads are mined they still got plenty of open fields everywhere where they can spam all the HE till they run out.

They don't pay anything by shooting a building full of RPG insurgents now; because of a certain 10m radius rule for civ roe.

So, two things. Firstly, the RPG is less accurate than Western disposable recoilless rifles. Secondly, RPGs also have backblast that makes firing from enclosed spaces inadvisable. The workaround is to knock the roof out first.

Truism wrote:So, two things. Firstly, the RPG is less accurate than Western disposable recoilless rifles. Secondly, RPGs also have backblast that makes firing from enclosed spaces inadvisable. The workaround is to knock the roof out first.

RPG-7 has a two-stage burn for a reason; it can be fired from buildings.

I hate playing maps like Fallujah, imo. It's just a rape fest. The cache locations are pretty obvious. (Like Karbala)

Burning Sands INS is by far the best shiznit ever.
Servers don't permit it cause it causes "Server Crashes" or they claim it's "broken"

This is incorrect, or at least incomplete. The two stage burn means it has a smaller backblast danger area, but it still has one. It means you can fire it from a smaller space, but that space is still much larger than most rooms. The BBDA extends 20m back, meaning a wall 10m behind you is definitely too close unless it has large and clear egress above, below or beside you that's quite deep. In a closed room the distance would be significantly larger.

Truism wrote:This is incorrect, or at least incomplete. The two stage burn means it has a smaller backblast danger area, but it still has one. It means you can fire it from a smaller space, but that space is still much larger than most rooms. The BBDA extends 20m back, meaning a wall 10m behind you is definitely too close unless it has large and clear egress above, below or beside you that's quite deep. In a closed room the distance would be significantly larger.

RPG-7 has been observed firing from rooms.

USArmy TRADOC says 2m clearance is enough and can be safely fired from buildings.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/rpg-7.pdf
(page 29)

The diagram for the 2m safety distance is for field defences. You will note that the defences shown have venting above the firer as I said before. On the preceding page it lists a safety distance of 30m for the backblast. Standard practice before firing a recoilless anti-armour weapon from an enclosed space is to create a vent. To the very best of my knowledge, this is also practice for RPGs. The document also says nothing of rooms, it says it can be fired from buildings, which it can be.

You are most welcome to fire an RPG from an enclosed room. Having fired plenty of anti-armour weapons and been around plenty more that are both soft launch and hard launch, I definitely wouldn't.

Truism wrote:The diagram for the 2m safety distance is for field defences. You will note that the defences shown have venting above the firer as I said before. On the preceding page it lists a safety distance of 30m for the backblast. Standard practice before firing a recoilless anti-armour weapon from an enclosed space is to create a vent. To the very best of my knowledge, this is also practice for RPGs. The document also says nothing of rooms, it says it can be fired from buildings, which it can be.

"The RPG-7 can be employed in all types of constructed fortifications to include positions with overhead cover and inside buildings."

"Tests also indicate that RPG-7 can be fired safely from inside buildings.

Personnel must be 30m BEHIND RPG-7; there is only wall behind RPG-7; or just a meter or so beside the RPG-7.

The diagram is of a position with OHP, and a building isn't an enclosed room. I can't decide if you're just ignorant of the behaviour of backblast effects or being deliberately obtuse in your last paragraph. Blast effects bounce off walls. If you were standing with a wall directly behind you, beside you, above you and below you, the blast would bounce off them and hit you. As I said in the original post, the RPG7 is not a soft launch weapon - the two stage motor gives it a smaller bbda, but it still has one. The smaller bbda means you can fire it from smaller and less well vented enclosures than a western single stage launcher, but it doesn't mean any room is suitable without preparation.

I don't want to make this rude or have a pissing contest, but have you ever fired an anti-armour weapon before?

Firing something like a 84mm Carl Gustav, by about the third round from a standing position in an open area your guts ache and you have a headache. If you had a blocked nose, all the mucus was literally blasted out by the overpressure on the first shot. Firing illumination rounds is even worse, it's literally like someone hitting the back of your legs with a bat every time you fire. Acting as the assistant gunner, if you leave a space between you and the firer, it's literally like someone punching you in the stomach because of the overpressure reverberating between you and them.

The RPG-7 isn't magical. These effects don't just cease to exist, they're just less pronounced. You'd still be an idiot to stand behind someone shooting it and you'd still be an absolute moron to fire it from an enclosed space without any venting at all. Point in fact, the RPG-7 doesn't have no BBDA, it has a BBDA which is 1/3 the size of an LAW BBDA which tends to suggest it's probably got about 1/3 the backblast and you can fire it in a space probably 1/3 the size. That doesn't mean you can take it into a small room and shoot it out a window with the doors shut and expect to be peachy afterwards, which seems to be what you're suggesting.

Good teamwork on Iraqi insurgent factions are the exception, not the norm.

There is a problem with it because players in general don't team switch to insurgents or look forward too.

It makes sense that rally points should be available to them. I also think we should have more MGs and RPGs for them as well.

Insurgency is never as fun as an insurgent compared to being BLUFOR.

Sent from my XT1028 using Tapatalk

as much as im against the new permanent rally system, i think that giving rallies to insurgents would actually be quite useful. with the requirements for the rally being like 2 grids away from a known cache. in addition to the teamwork benefits, it would encourage the insurgents to be near their objective.

PS: insurgency is more fun as opfor than bluefor.

Truism wrote:I don't want to make this rude or have a pissing contest, but have you ever fired an anti-armour weapon before?

Firing something like a 84mm Carl Gustav, by about the third round from a standing position in an open area your guts ache and you have a headache. If you had a blocked nose, all the mucus was literally blasted out by the overpressure on the first shot. Firing illumination rounds is even worse, it's literally like someone hitting the back of your legs with a bat every time you fire. Acting as the assistant gunner, if you leave a space between you and the firer, it's literally like someone punching you in the stomach because of the overpressure reverberating between you and them.

The RPG-7 isn't magical. These effects don't just cease to exist, they're just less pronounced. You'd still be an idiot to stand behind someone shooting it and you'd still be an absolute moron to fire it from an enclosed space without any venting at all. Point in fact, the RPG-7 doesn't have no BBDA, it has a BBDA which is 1/3 the size of an LAW BBDA which tends to suggest it's probably got about 1/3 the backblast and you can fire it in a space probably 1/3 the size. That doesn't mean you can take it into a small room and shoot it out a window with the doors shut and expect to be peachy afterwards, which seems to be what you're suggesting.

No; but have you ever fired the RPG-7?

RPG-7 isn't a Carl Gustav; not even close since Carl Gustav shoots a generally much bigger round and without the 2-stage burn of RPG-7.

It's not magical; it just has a smaller backblast, that's what matters.
If it's 1/3 the BBDA then actual energy of backblast should be much less than 1/3 of LAW because energy dissipates in an area.

Strawman all you want. It's not going to work. In case you have not noticed; there isn't usually closed door on inside of building in PR. All you attempted to argue was that the bunker in diagram had huge opening on top therefore it can't be fired if there's a roof; which was proven false elsewhere on that same TRADOC. You tried really hard to define a room in a building as impossible even though TRADOC clearly stated it can be fired from buildings; you are assuming all buildings are all just one giant room with doors open.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5aa_1356 ... comments=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KywPbbUnTV8