Project Reality Forums

Death! wrote:I have been disappointed with, not all, but a lot of players lately. If I sit my *** on a flag for defending because all the team is retardely rushing (sometimes they go for flags that are not even on the game yet) and leaving the flag alone, people on my squad will yell "meh, SL, this os boring...". Oh, fuck you, go play something fucking else with pew pew all the time if you think tactical shooters are boring. Another thing I've been listening a lot is "this is not ArmA".

I am getting tired of squad leading, I have been doing trans and mortars a lot.

This. I defend, since there is nobody else. Squad is good for 5 minutes, then they start to move around, chat, not pay attention, 10 seconds after that grenades start flying in, there is automatic fire dowsntairs, 80% of the squad is down yelling for medic and the flag is lost. Additionaly 2 people leave/disconnect. Im always taking one for the team in the SL sense. One too many times the undefended flag behind our backs was taken only to result in neutral-neutral stalemate and endless swaps.

Death! wrote:We could have bigger briefing time... 3-4 minutes after the squads are formed should be enough to set basic goals for the team.

This, however admins need to kick people who talk during that time. I have heard music, foreign languages, random shit, repetitive shit, annoyance even goddamn kit assigning on local during round start. Seriously? I often ask myself in the first 10 minutes - Why do I even bother and waste my time with these people? Sometimes AltF4 follows, but then again, 1 out of 3 times I decide to stay.

StevePl4y5 wrote:That would be a easy fix. Just have the transmit sound cue and the text at the bottom saying who's talking, but no actual sound transmited, just to signal you someone is trying to get a hold of you, so you can unmute them and respond when you can.

Let's be honest, its very likely you'll forget to get back to that person, or maybe it's just me but I would be too distracted by whats happening on the ground to think about that stuff.

The comms can be intrusive if people have no radio discipline but on the other han in clan wars and tournaments this side of the game could also take real skill. If clan A has poor communications skills it will be disadvantaged over clan B that has strict radio discipline. It's another layer where teams can be distinguished from each other skill wise, the more difficult it is to master this game the better.

To the OP, muting local is not realistic, local is supposed to be an extension of environmental noises. You can't mute someone in real life who's talking to you, its not a channel.

Also we shouldn't ask the PR devs to start putting that much time in this mod anymore, I would much rather they focus on the standalone game. One of the most intrusive things in this game is the server crashes and most people can deal with them now, so if you can deal with a whole game being reset you can deal with some comms.

And if it helps you can call whoever is abusing the channels to shut the fuck up. This is our community, we have our demands and standards, so we should teach overexcited channel guzzlers what those standards are and over time you'll find him teaching the next guy. This is how other people are taught how to behave, absolutely everyone has gone from a newb who can't stop yelling for medic the second he hits the floor to someone who has patience and understands why a revive isn't immediately possible.

Most people play games where they don't need these qualities and newbies have that baby fear of being abandoned when they are lying on the floor with blood on their face, they get a small panic attack. HALP SAVE ME OMFG PLEASSSSEEE WHERE ARE YOU MEDIC, MEEEEEDIIICCCCC.

Same in the channels, they get excited by something that's happening to them on the ground and they suddenly burst out into all channels "SON OF A ***** WE ARE GETTING BATTERED HERE, ALL SQUADS COME TO MY POSITION AND HELP ME!!!! CAS WHERE ARE YOU TANK COME HERE" (usually its not exactly like this, but iv seen it happen)

Meanwhile the more experienced players


dude... chill

I actually find having to process multiple information feeds and channels to be one of the most exciting parts of squad leading. I've had just about every situation described in this thread happen to me but it's never actually bothered me.

it comes down to what is more important?...

the squad leader effectively leading the squad or having access to a lot of redundant data?

bare in mind that the squad itself benefits greatly from clearly hearing the direction of their squad leader.

I think the majority confuses squad leading with operating a hotline.

IF a commander is in place, the CO should be directing the bulk of the traffic. There should be almost NO All SL comms. SL-Alpha may talk to SL-Charlie, but the All chat should not exist with a CO.

If there is no CO, then the SLs need to use their discretion as to when to talk to all SLs and when to talk to an individual. There should only be VERY FEW occasions in which you need the ALL SL chat.

It comes down to SL discipline. This game is predicated on providing the tools for people to be excellent at their chosen role. If SLs are abusing All Chat, then the more experienced SLs need to put them in check.

You can't design competency into the game. It has to be learned.

That said, I think it might be useful to be able to mute individual SLs or, ALL SLs simply from a spam standpoint. Some SLs like to blast music, or just annoy people.

Honestly, I would just be happy if ya'll just muted local chat between rounds. Game fixed for me on that point.

People who dont care about tactical communication would just switch off all the channels at the start and never turn them back on except to ask how you get a sniper kit.

I've read this entire thread closely,

What I see described as 'simple solutions' are not simple at all--muting of any kind undermines team cohesion fundamentally. It's the reason 1-channel local mumble on a server never worked, because everyone assumed they would be overheard by the enemy and so no one used it. Similarly, if we add convenient hotkeys to mute squad leaders either individually or wholesale, leaders will assume they aren't being heard and will stop using the feature. That would be awful.

The real 'simple solution' is to remove the all-SL key from everyone but the commander. Suddenly, SLs need to be much more familiar with the squads in their team, and have to make actual decisions about what information is relevant and to whom. This builds team cohesion. This also builds the commander role, who will have the unique ability to address all leaders at the same time when strategy must be shifted or a crisis needs to be resolved. Perhaps the commander will be able to listen to all inter-squad chatter when he is in the command booth, and so will have a unique understanding of where assets need to move to help the team.

This strikes me as simple to implement, and effective at reducing spam (which is truly fatiguing to good SLs) AND it will improve team cohesion and realism. Killing a whole family of birds with one stone

"b-but there was this one time that i wanted to talk to squad 2 and squad 5 at the same time, so obviously we need num* to be available all the time to all squad leaders. dont worry guys just tell the admin when someone is spamming num* all the time and wont stop. people usually learn the right way to use the numpad"

When I am SL, I just open PRMumble.exe and mute any squad leader that only knows how to press num* and refuses to learn how to use num1~num9. Unfortunately this has the effect of muting them in local chat too, but overall its worth it because I can actually talk to my own squad and other squad leaders (one-at-a-time).

Simple solution is to remove the All chat from SL (*), and keep only the all chat of the CO. So when the SL needs to communicate some general activity, it communicates with the CO, and the CO filters this information and passes on the information. The position of the Commander needs to be further appreciated.

Give em the old "Hey, shut the fuck up and stop spamming squad leader comms"

FFG wrote:Give em the old "Hey, shut the fuck up and stop spamming squad leader comms"

What if I told you it would never be necessary to say that ever again? It doesn't even take anything new, I suspect it would take DEVs about 2 minutes of work to remove the all-SL key from everyone but commander...

I'd love to be corrected by a DEV if it's not true.

communistman wrote:What if I told you it would never be necessary to say that ever again? It doesn't even take anything new, I suspect it would take DEVs about 2 minutes of work to remove the all-SL key from everyone but commander...

I'd love to be corrected by a DEV if it's not true.

I mean sure it could be done, But say you have a shit command whos just building fobs and barely passing on information.

Part of the reason why PRvets would rather deal with some cancer squad leaders and say "Hey, shut the fuck up. Stop spamming" is because any alternatives would detract from the games overall feel.

Part of the beauty of Project Reality is people who don't like each other make the decision every day to work with each other to get shit done.

Aslong as you aren't on a shit server, If you report someone spamming all squad. They will probably be removed from SL unless they aren't in the wrong.

FFG wrote:I mean sure it could be done, But say you have a shit command whos just building fobs and barely passing on information.

Say you have a shit squad leader, or a shit medic, or a shit tank squad, or shit CAS. It's just another c'est la vie thing, par for the course in PR. In fact it kind of dovetails with what you have to say here:

FFG wrote:Part of the beauty of Project Reality is people who don't like each other make the decision every day to work with each other to get shit done.

Which I agree with.

FFG wrote:Part of the reason why PRvets would rather deal with some cancer squad leaders and say "Hey, shut the fuck up. Stop spamming" is because any alternatives would detract from the games overall feel.

I've played since .83 and qualify as a PR vet, I think. You haven't made a case for how this would detract from the 'overall feel', at least give me some solid points to disagree with I've made my case for how this simple fix increases players' dependency on one another and encourages team cohesion. There's also been a long standing complaint that the commander role is largely redundant and ineffective, this would also be a step towards remedying that issue.

FFG wrote:As long as you aren't on a shit server, If you report someone spamming all squad. They will probably be removed from SL unless they aren't in the wrong.

That's probably true, granted an admin is even on and attentive. What I'm proposing is to remove the potential for this issue to even arise. Happier squad leaders and admins that don't have to deal with that shit equals a better experience for everyone.

Wing Walker wrote:If this were an option, I would like this this for volume levels:

1. Local turned way up to 100%
2. SQ channel at 50-60%
3. Commander at 50-60%
4. ALL channel at 25%

Or like someone else mentioned in Arma you have one channel in one ear, and a different one in the other, with local being stereo. However, I believe the key is simplicity; we need a way to significantly reduce the surplus chatter for all without adding a bunch of new steps that make the experience incongruent among players. If players are allowed to fiddle with volume levels, many will default to muting, and leaders will lose confidence that their appeals are being heard. Again, the simple way to do it is to take away the all channel from squad leaders who can't seem to filter what info is important to which unit. It's pro-realism and easy enough to implement to make an experiment worthwhile.

I think it's fine, but if for some it's not good/too hectic for them, then we can have wing walker's suggestion of option-values for different comm channels.

part of this battle-disorganization thing is part of what makes PR so great.

QuickLoad wrote:part of this battle-disorganization thing is part of what makes PR so great.

I'm puzzled that people are saying this. PR battles are hectic and difficult to control as it is--you need to manage, inform, and direct your squadmates, make sure that your unit has good tactical footing and strategic awareness. You might be coordinating with tanks or CAS or other infantry squads, etc. I don't see how having an inconsiderate SL impulsively light up the all-channel with his panicked and/or irrelevant shouting is enhancing the game for anyone. If you take away that all-button, this SL would have to actually consider which squad his shouts and pleas matter to. The battles are still chaotic, the comms still need your attention. Nothing is taken away.

Also to come back to enhancing commander role--teams with a commander will feel less disjointed than those without, seeing as they will be the only one on the team that can address all leaders at the same time. It won't open the door to abuse as some might instinctively think, it will only give the commander another tool to use if it is necessary.

thats assuming you even have a commander in the first place its not really necessary for most games unless you using mortars, need an area attack or like marking old caches so its easier to find the new ones. Ideally you should have a commander every game but in all likelihood you probably dont.

theDaarkness wrote:thats assuming you even have a commander in the first place its not really necessary for most games unless you using mortars, need an area attack or like marking old caches so its easier to find the new ones. Ideally you should have a commander every game but in all likelihood you probably dont.

PR is a niche game that involves strategic depth. If we are going for realism and teamwork, then yes, let's operate on the assumption that the commander role should be a productive and effective one. Your last sentence supports my suggestion more than it challenges it. Let's see what happens when the commander role is given more power and capability to facilitate team success. I'd love to see more commanders working for their teams, and if they don't then the mutiny button is there for a reason.

Someone tell me how removing the all-squad SL chat would be ultimately counter-productive or hurts the 'overall feel' of PR. I am so far from convinced. How will removing lazy SL behavior backfire?