[Discussion] Basic PR Rules

[mat552]

Psyrus;2019516']
Squad leaders are generally focused on their micro-battle, with some regard to the team as a whole.

[...]

I'm sorry you haven't experienced an effective commander, but as someone who SLs almost every round and occasionally does commanding, I can tell you with authority that a decent commander pulls a reasonable team together far more effectively than mumble can.

It really did used to be that way! SLs used to tend not to think of how they would fit into the overall battleplan (most assetprostitutes still don't) but instead how best to achieve the objective they wanted independant of any other squads. That simply isn't the case any more. Being in direct contact with all other squad leaders at all times with the push of a single button and no filter means that they are finely attuned with everything that any other squad leader knows and chooses to share with anyone.

I have plenty of fond memories of effective commanders, but I also am not under any illusions that commanding is ever going to make a comeback in PR on any wide scale, well, not unless a server that beats you over the head with one makes an appearance again, RIP TG... Even if players listen to you and are genuinely interested in trusting you to lead them to victory (something that tends not to be true), they don't need you for anything anymore. The best thing any commander can do now is be attentive to the needs of his team with regards to UAV placement and trying to keep the map marked.

[StevePl4y5]

Man the UAV until they finally decide to nerf that son of a *****, and report incoming hostiles. That's all I need you for.

See, that mentality is the problem. Following that **** mentality we might aswell just rename the commander to UAV Operator.

[Frontliner]

See, that mentality is the problem. Following that **** mentality we might aswell just rename the commander to UAV Operator.

Dude, Commander UAV in it's current format is about 15x more useful than a Recon squad, if you're not in the UAV ghosting the shit out of the enemy team, you're not using the Commander to it's fullest potential. Saw an enemy squad heading my way? Mark it on the map, give me a notification, and I'll react to it. And while I do that, you can go scout some other shit, I do NOT need you to tell me to engage hostiles.

You may refer to it as a mentality problem, I see it as a balance problem.

[bren]

The commander (rarely) could also go inside the combat zone and do things like put rallies together as well, another key use of the commander that is sadly never used though.

[Cpt.Future]

See, that mentality is the problem. Following that **** mentality we might aswell just rename the commander to UAV Operator.

I guess we should do that

[MoulinKiller]

SQ4: What the fuck, StoneClaw, you could have told us!

Me: Dude, I fucking told you to build that FOB. I told you they will flank, and a freaking TOW would have stopped them!
SQ4: This is fucking ridiculous...
SQ1 (Admin): Stop fighting guys.
SQ4: Why didn't you build it yourself. You just let them f**king kill us.
Me: I told you to do it, and you didn't, this is the outcome of not following orders
SQ4: ... f**kin' retarded
*Admin warns him*
SQ4: I don't mo**erf**king have to fucking do what you f**ktards tell me to. Just go f**k...
*Squad Leader 4 gets banned*
Me: I'm gonna take a break

i loled

[StevePl4y5]

Dude, Commander UAV in it's current format is about 15x more useful than a Recon squad, if you're not in the UAV ghosting the shit out of the enemy team, you're not using the Commander to it's fullest potential. Saw an enemy squad heading my way? Mark it on the map, give me a notification, and I'll react to it. And while I do that, you can go scout some other shit, I do NOT need you to tell me to engage hostiles.

You may refer to it as a mentality problem, I see it as a balance problem.

What is the commander supposed to do on maps without UAV then?

The commander's job is to watch all the movement in the battlefield, both enemy and friendly. With the UAV, he can more easily watch enemy movement, without it, he depends on intel given by his Squad Leaders.

With that information, the commander who has the big picture of the Battlefield at hands, moves the Squads to the apropriate positions to either protect, or attack, in order to control all the flanks and routes.

It's not the commanders job to tell you to engage that specific group of enemies, or to attack that specific FOB. It is his job to move you around in general directions and positions, in order to secure all the enemy's attack routes, or to mount a staged coordinated attack. And IT IS your FRACKING JOB to LISTEN, as a Squad Leader.

You can question the commander, you can have 5 o'clock tea with him while discussing strategy, and you can bend around his order to your liking and playstyle. But if the commander fracking tells you to protect the northern flank, you're not gonna be the idiot who's going to protect the eastern flank that's already protected, because you think it's easier to defend.

It doesn't even fracking matter if there's a rule about it, it's a team mindset, and fracking common sense. The guy with the bird's eye who's trying to coordinate the WHOLE TEAM, probably knows better than me, the guy with the limited view of the battlefield, only having to coordinate 8 guys.

Squad Leaders who do their own thing, not caring about the rest of the team, just cause that's what they always do in that map, and that's what works, even though it's totally unnecessary at that given time, shouldn't even be allowed to play a game like PR. So what they're top squad? If the team lost because they failed to do what was best for the team.

My point is across, make of it what you want.

[L4gi]

What is the commander supposed to do on maps without UAV then?

You know, like... command the team? Glorified UAV ***** =/= commander. Also, commander =/= person suggesting people what to do.

[Frontliner]

Steve, you do not need to write a wall of text for me why I have to follow commander orders and what not, I'll cut it short for you:

-If you clearly know that following the commander order is meaningless, or risks your entire squad dying, why do it? I certainly wouldn't unless I know the Commander in question to be a skilled one.
-UAV in it's current format is totally broken. You're detrimental to your team's success if you don't UAV all over the map to scout for Armour, Mortars and hostile CAS. Again, it's not a mentality issue, it's what the current state of the game amounts to.

It doesn't even fracking matter if there's a rule about it, it's a team mindset, and fracking common sense. The guy with the bird's eye who's trying to coordinate the WHOLE TEAM, probably knows better than me, the guy with the limited view of the battlefield, only having to coordinate 8 guys.

This is wrong. Most commanders overestimate your capabilities or underestimate the opponents even if they clearly know what's up. Their grasp of the situation is a different one than mine, mostly related to the UAV providing clear sight on opponents. On the ground however, the situation is not as simple. The Commander lacks the ability to properly judge the situation and in that case, his orders are to be evaluated before acted upon.

Squad Leaders who do their own thing, not caring about the rest of the team, just cause that's what they always do in that map, and that's what works, even though it's totally unnecessary at that given time, shouldn't even be allowed to play a game like PR. So what they're top squad? If the team lost because they failed to do what was best for the team.

There's spots on some maps that you absolutely have to defend in order to secure your team's victory. And some of those aren't flags. Guess how often you'd be asked to move "Squad one, your position is no capture area, please move into the enemy fire instead of providing your team with a protected flank and good FOB position."

Just because you, as a Commander, disagree with me, doesn't mean I shouldn't play PR. You should instead come off your high horse.

[StevePl4y5]

Steve, you do not need to write a wall of text for me why I have to follow commander orders and what not, I'll cut it short for you:

-If you clearly know that following the commander order is meaningless, or risks your entire squad dying, why do it? I certainly wouldn't unless I know the Commander in question to be a skilled one.
-UAV in it's current format is totally broken. You're detrimental to your team's success if you don't UAV all over the map to scout for Armour, Mortars and hostile CAS. Again, it's not a mentality issue, it's what the current state of the game amounts to.



This is wrong. Most commanders overestimate your capabilities or underestimate the opponents even if they clearly know what's up. Their grasp of the situation is a different one than mine, mostly related to the UAV providing clear sight on opponents. On the ground however, the situation is not as simple. The Commander lacks the ability to properly judge the situation and in that case, his orders are to be evaluated before acted upon.



There's spots on some maps that you absolutely have to defend in order to secure your team's victory. And some of those aren't flags. Guess how often you'd be asked to move "Squad one, your position is no capture area, please move into the enemy fire instead of providing your team with a protected flank and good FOB position."

Just because you, as a Commander, disagree with me, doesn't mean y shouldn't play PR. You should instead come off your high horse.

And that's exactly why Battlefield 2, so kindly handed us, PR Squad Leaders, with this really shiny button that says "RESIGN" to tell the commander to gtfo if he's not doing a good job. And on top of that, it gave us a VOTE, so we can choose if we want that guy named "WorstCommanderImJustATroll2014" to be put on the commander seat.

When I say that Squad Leaders have to follow the Commanders orders, I'm not saying you should follow a 14 year old kid that wants to check out the UAV seat, I'm saying you have to follow the COMMANDER. It's a word with a meaning for me, and when I say commander, I mean a competent guy that knows what he's doing. And please, the commander doesn't know the situation of the guys on the ground? Well, I don't see how that can be a thing unless the guy calling himself commander is a half brained idiot. Any guy that applies for commander is just any other PR player, and any other PR player knows what the situation on the ground is, because he's been there multiple times.

Commanders in PR are not some ***-hat-suited guys sitting behind a desk miles away from the battlefield watching a UAV feed, they're players that were where you are literally 30 minutes ago in the previous round.

[Frontliner]

When I say that Squad Leaders have to follow the Commanders orders, I'm not saying you should follow a 14 year old kid that wants to check out the UAV seat, I'm saying you have to follow the COMMANDER. It's a word with a meaning for me, and when I say commander, I mean a competent guy that knows what he's doing.

"If you clearly know that following the commander order is meaningless, or risks your entire squad dying, why do it? I certainly wouldn't unless I know the Commander in question to be a skilled one."

I said the same, read.

And please, the commander doesn't know the situation of the guys on the ground? Well, I don't see how that can be a thing unless the guy calling himself commander is a half brained idiot. Any guy that applies for commander is just any other PR player, and any other PR player knows what the situation on the ground is, because he's been there multiple times.

Every engagement is different as every engagement features different types of kits and ways to play itself out. Just because you, in the UAV, can clearly see an enemy, does that not mean that he isn't hidden or in a good position to strike and wreck havoc. I cannot recall how often I've heard COs misjudge the situation and my squad was being wasted because of it. I know COs who've played this game for more than just a few years and be susceptible to this misjudgement as well. It happens, and it happens quite often.

[bren]

Hi guys, not going to derail the thread but this is the result of this thread - PR:BF2 Server Rules | FCV Network

Thanks!

[Danger_6]

FCV server has come a long way Brenn4n. I am pleased for you and your community. Your updated rules seem in tune with a positive style of gameplay that I personally condone.

Keep up the hard work.

Thanks,

Danger

[Psyrus]

Hi guys, not going to derail the thread but this is the result of this thread - PR:BF2 Server Rules | FCV Network

Thanks!

I'm a little confused about section 7 of your rules:

1. The only time a team's main may be "baseraped" is when their main base is within these measures of an objective/cache in play:
4km Map = 750m^2
2km map = 400m^2
1km Map = 250m^2

750m^2 is only a ~15m radius, 400m^2 is only ~11m radius and 250m is ~9m radius

Did you perhaps mean "within a 750m, 400m and 250m radius"?

If so, then wouldn't it be better to define it by grids on the map, since 250m is 3.33(r) 1km map grid squares, 400m is 2.67 2km grid squares and 750m is 2.5 grid squares, it just seems like it may cause quite a bit of confusion?

So if it described as, for example, 3 grid squares and hopefully most people passed high-school math, they know that the hypotenuse of a right angled, isosceles triangle (half a square) is ~1.4x larger than the two sides... so approximation leads us to ~2 diagonal grids.

[bren]

I'm a little confused about section 7 of your rules:


750m^2 is only a ~15m radius, 400m^2 is only ~11m radius and 250m is ~9m radius

Did you perhaps mean "within a 750m, 400m and 250m radius"?

If so, then wouldn't it be better to define it by grids on the map, since 250m is 3.33(r) 1km map grid squares, 400m is 2.67 2km grid squares and 750m is 2.5 grid squares, it just seems like it may cause quite a bit of confusion?

So if it described as, for example, 3 grid squares and hopefully most people passed high-school math, they know that the hypotenuse of a right angled, isosceles triangle (half a square) is ~1.4x larger than the two sides... so approximation leads us to ~2 diagonal grids.

Sh**, I meant cubed. I'll just make it without any exponents. It was late when I wrote these

Basically, if Fortress is the cap for US on Muttrah, it's within the given metric radius, therefore the MEC can be baseraped.

@Danger, thanks!!

[Murphy]

Section 7 Rule 3 - "All players are expected to leave mainbase within five minutes of their arrival in the mainbase due to having to "RTB" or "return to base", respawn in, etc."

This might need reconsideration. I assume it's to avoid people afking in main base, and I full back that, but Trans pilots sit in main all around sometimes. It seems useless, just saying "AFKing ingame for more than 5 minutes can result in a kick to make room for an active player" would suffice...I'm fairly sure there is already an AFK rule in place.

Other than that very nice precedent, taking the rules straight from the regular and long time players who frequent these forums is probably the most intelligent plan of attack. Keep it up Brennan, I'm sure you've surprised quite a few nay sayers with this.

[bren]

Section 7 Rule 3 - "All players are expected to leave mainbase within five minutes of their arrival in the mainbase due to having to "RTB" or "return to base", respawn in, etc."

This might need reconsideration. I assume it's to avoid people afking in main base, and I full back that, but Trans pilots sit in main all around sometimes. It seems useless, just saying "AFKing ingame for more than 5 minutes can result in a kick to make room for an active player" would suffice...I'm fairly sure there is already an AFK rule in place.

Other than that very nice precedent, taking the rules straight from the regular and long time players who frequent these forums is probably the most intelligent plan of attack. Keep it up Brennan, I'm sure you've surprised quite a few nay sayers with this.

Added

Code: Select all

Exception is when the player is waiting for an asset to spawn or when a squad is trying to regroup.

Thanks Murph, means a lot coming from you.

[Jevski]

I often see players. "Im waiting for my tank to spawn"

Instead of taking a logi and go build some fobs for the team....

[RAWSwampFox]

Good morning,

All this discussion about rules remind me of a teen family camp I attended with my 2 oldest daughters in 2010. Part of the camp had team building activities. A total of 5-7 families were represented in our group. Our training assistant laid out the game and gave only three rules as a foundation to the game. Within 10 minutes of discussing how we were going to play the game, the three rules became a bureaucratic policy manual with 500+ pages of worthless information that pertained to everything but the game. Tensions flared, arguments became heated, teens and parents began to rebel/shutdown.

I find that the majority of servers, clans, etc., put together rules that cover everything from eating to pooping and all the processes in between but miss the very aspect the game is intended for, simple enjoyment.

The KISS method is so nice - Keep It Simple Stupid - or:

KISS - I Wanna Rock N Roll All Nite - 1996 - YouTube

-SwampFox