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Exactly. And that's why it's a good thing. No more spawning defenders to keep defending (unrealistic).

You must look at neutralize like this:

neutralize = CP is contested

If you kill the attackers bellow 50% of your forces, the CP will go back to your control. That's defense, not spawning back at the CP to defend again. If you lose control and your mobile spawn points (squad leaders and APCs) you must come from another CP to counter-attack/reinforce the CP.

Defense will be absolutely important and harder.

Obviously, as a defender, you don't simply defend the flag, but also push the enemy back away from the flag. A buffer zone of sorts. Or if you can manage it, slip some enemy past the attacking forces to neutralise their flag.

If neutralising a flag is easier, then there will be a reduction of ready spawn points as a platform for reinforcements for taking that flag you just neutralised. Hence longer gaps between reinforcements.

That is, providing the flag behind the defenders isn't neutralised at the same time!!!

The main problems you will now see is inter squad communication and the necessity for a good commander to order squads around and squads to follow orders that they can't immediately understand the reason for.

I was trying this out last night on the iGi server, leapfrogging bases with my squad to be able to quickly steamroller the next flag. Unfortunately it wasn't working due to a break down in inter squad communications and lack of people willing to defence the next base back. All rear squads moved off the next allied flag to be taken and then weren't moving fast enough or simply went to ground under first contact with the enemy, allowing the enemy to leapfrog them and take the next flag they were aiming for, creating a domino effect my team was unable to comprehend or deal with.

I think some of these changes are going to be cool, but unfortunately, I think they will also kill the game.

It will reduce spawn killing, and allow for more tactical movement and less stalemates.

{XG} non_compliance wrote:I think some of these changes are going to be cool, but unfortunately, I think they will also kill the game.

Why's that then? In fact why even say that without an explanation.

'[PIT wrote:BludShoT']How do you figure? I thought the exact opposite. It's going to be easy to neutralize flags, and hard to keep flags from being neutralized. So you can try to defend a flag, but you won't be able to stop it from being neutralized because the radius is going to be big, plus the enemy can grey your flag with less attackers than you have defenders.

So, defending is going to be more pointless, and attacking is going to be more purposeful. The defenders will lose their old advantage of being able to spawn on the flag to keep defending. As soon as the flag goes grey they are on equal ground with the attackers because both have to spawn on SL's or back at the back base.

It will take longer for the attackers to capture the flag than it will for the defenders to capture it back, but the defenders lose their spawn quickly, soo... the attackers just have to pick off the defenders and then they don't even have to worry about them spawning back like they had to worry about in 0.4.

Well i see u point in the difficulty to keep a flag zone free of enemies trying to grey out the flag, but still i figure the defence to get a boost with this new system.

Reason is of course that since the attacker only needs 50% to grey a flag, the defender needs a stronger defensive force to keeping it grey until reinforcements from the rear can arrive and clear the flag zone for attackers.

This of course also makes reinforcements routes more fragile to enemy ambush parties, trying to stop the flow of reinforcements, creating the need for a rear defence force behind the flag being attacked/greyed out.
The ambush parties are obviously the attackers forward defence trying to stop the defenders reinforcements. So the attacker both desires to attack and defend at the same time. (Which in some degree could be called shield and sword tactic.)

So now u not only need a defence force inside a flag zone, but also a rear defence force to guard the reinforcement routes. Especially because of the speed the flag now will turn grey. (Any vet team would also try to create a forward defence force, harassing enemy attack reinforcements.)

On the squad level the tactical defence of a flag zone is now more defensive focused, in the way that the squad leader actually gets higher priority than the flag it self, cause of the reasons mentioned above. This mean that the days where a whole squad could defend a flag zone up front in the enemy direction is over because the flag probably will grey anyway. So the squad actually needs to begin to focus more on its own defence than the flag. It’s all about keeping the squad leader alive now so the squad can hold out until those reinforcements arrive.

So basically I suppose that we will se a change over time, where teams are more focused on their defence than they are today. Cause if u don’t focus on defence at all, which most teams still today doesn’t, u flags will be in great danger.
Of course I don’t expect this change will happen overnight, but well…who knows, maybe when people begin to get tired of all the fast loosing battles in 0.5, cause none defend?

I think people are not focusing on the changes to gameplay that will have to take place. NO more just having a few guys in highly concealed spaces near a flag. A defense must be setup and spread out encouraging better tactics than just one chokepoint near a flag wtih a whole squad defending a small zone. It puts the threat of a long walk into the defense of a flag, but also gives a chance for other squads of a team to react and recapture the flag. As of now, once the defenders fall and the flag goes neutral, basically the flag is lost. Only with a good commander/Squad leaders could you be alerted to a flag needing help. Now once you see a neutral flag, everyone knows it is under assault and that there will be sufficient time to save the flag. It always sucked to lose a flag then have to recapture it by fighting through a near endless wave of new defenders that just spawned there. Gone are the days of, "Oh it's neutral, I'll just wait to spawn there once they cap it." Also gone are the lone wolf camping the second flag in a progression and basically getting an uncontested instant cap because the initial flag finally fell. I wouldn't be oppossed to having a minimum of 3 ppl per flag to cap. After all the flags represent a friendly controlled area.

These changed will greatly change how the game is played and force more tactical play. With two flag options defence could be more important. The only problem I see is it both flags have to be capped for the next group to be unlocked, then the defending team is just going to defend the more strategic flag and let the defense of hte other fall which would lead back to the initial AAS version essentially, except less likelyhood of bleed as more flags will be exchanged. For example a flag with a spawn point is much more significant than one without.

I think respawning should be "reinforcements" style like in Red Orchestra. That is that reinforcements arrive at certain times in the game. Instead of 30 or so seconds from when you die, that means that people spawn togethor in groups rather than isolated on their own. It would make for more exciting battles imo as the enemy would come in waves instead of just randomly. It would also mean squads would stick togethor more, as they'd most likely spawn togethor. How many times have you spawned only to spawn 10 seconds after someone else, who just took the only jeep left and drove off?

.:iGi:.U.G.H. wrote:Why's that then? In fact why even say that without an explanation.

I think it sounds like cool additions... the changes will promote more team play.. but at the same time, making the game more complicated, IMHO will discourage more people from playing.. thus making the small community even smaller. The removal of the scoreboard, especially will accelerate this process. I know there's a bit of an exploit with the checking to see if your spray in the bushes got you a kill.... but I, for one, enjoy the team aspect of the game but also the individual success. I like to see my team win, but I also like to beable to periodically check my score to see if I need to tone it down a bit, or if I need to step it up..etc.

{XG} non_compliance wrote:I think it sounds like cool additions... the changes will promote more team play.. but at the same time, making the game more complicated, IMHO will discourage more people from playing.. thus making the small community even smaller. The removal of the scoreboard, especially will accelerate this process. I know there's a bit of an exploit with the checking to see if your spray in the bushes got you a kill.... but I, for one, enjoy the team aspect of the game but also the individual success. I like to see my team win, but I also like to beable to periodically check my score to see if I need to tone it down a bit, or if I need to step it up..etc.

your score will be still shown at the end of every round with every one elese, we would just be changing the ingame scoreboard, into more of a player list IF/WHEN we do this.

As for making it more complicated, It dosent take 5mins for most ppl to work out that capping order of the flags with just looking at the loading screen images. Ive tested some of our templates, to see which ones are best on random ppl on xfire who dont have a clue about AAS v2 till they saw these pics.

If anything, AAS v2 will make this mod more appealing to vBF2 users who where put off from AAS v1 as now they have more flexibility on what flags they attack

'[R-DEV wrote:Rhino']your score will be still shown at the end of every round with every one elese, we would just be changing the ingame scoreboard, into more of a player list IF/WHEN we do this.



If anything, AAS v2 will make this mod more appealing to vBF2 users who where put off from AAS v1 as now they have more flexibility on what flags they attack

yeah, I know it will still show at the end of the round...


I hope you are right.

I'm not saying that I think that these changes should not be implemented.. I am just saying that I hope they do not have an adverse effect.

Conquest is simply musical flags.

AAS v1 is providing stalemates and showing nasty holes in lack of teamplay, even allowing for lonewolves due to the situation being attacking and defending one map at a time.

AAS v2 will force people to think about teamplay and should easily promote greater squad movement rather than head on lonewolf gameplay. It allows for greater squad movement round the map, allowing for squads taking totally different routes rather than the same old tried and tested ones that lead to gaming stagnating in peoples minds.

There is a possibility that this AAS v2 gaming style will only be realised on full servers of 40 or more players, or that 64 player servers (if teamplay implemented) will see the most exciting and fulfilling gameplay. But now people will feel a greater sense of movement, will make more friends in the community and start using voip for effect more.

I can imagine PR players having mates round, you show them the game, using voip and increased levels of squad movement with the new AAS v2 system and your mates wondering why they bought the games they did and why they aren't themselves playing anything so engrossing!

You know what would be cool, if you could check if there are enemies in the radius of a flag, and if so eliminate the spawn points from the flag. I know it would take a lot of coding, but...

(there is an editor setting for this but it isn't implemented)

i think the best PR servers are the 32 player ones. anything higher than that is too chaotic, enemies every corner, dozens of lone-wolves swarming back CP's spawn raping etc etc