Project Reality Forums

Sf17k +1
This isnt only good for PR, Gaming experience, and the community, but its also good for life...

TommyGunn wrote:The real frustration is when you fight admins and you're actually in right, and they ban you after all

Yeah that's a good thing to do... argue with admins.

But I do agree to a extent with OP.




The frustration j have is when NO ONE COMMUNICATES. I was on a tank squad 2 dayz ago... asking commander where enemy armor was. No response. Asked all squads.... no response. This is what frustrates me a lot though.

As second in command of an Arma clan which comes with admin duties I know how difficult it can be to be an admin. I guess I was lucky enough though to learn the trade from some (IMO) very good admins during my days in a BF2 / PR clan quite some time ago.

What they taught me was to act as professional as possible, always explain to people why decisions were made, even when they didn't ask, and just apply the server rules to everyone, even fellow clan mates. Trolls were dealt with swiftly too. Some actually returned afterwards to apologise and they were welcomed back and actually became regular players.

What also was quite remarkable, and I think there are many other admins like this out there, is that the admins I learned the trade from weren't power hungry. They wanted to ensure that everyone had a fun time and could play the game as intended. New players, we hated to use the word noobs, were taken under the wing of experienced players and we never had too many issues with them.

I am speaking about another PR era though I guess. I haven't been active that much lately so I can't really tell how it is nowadays. But the times I remember the servers I regularly played on were very well run and enjoyable to play on.

My 5 cents here, there are good admins out there. But just like in Arma I guess you have to look around for a bit.

Well CelticAlliance, I feel you might be an excellent admin to regulate the atmosphere on PR servers!

Few months ago,
I have been permanently banned from a server for asking a question in the All chat of the game.
I asked if we were never allowed to use all chat in game.

I got kicked.

When i rejoined,
I asked the admin why he didnt warn me,
he then told me to shut up and if I was unpleased by his behavior, to report it to the forum.
Then I said to him he was control freak and left the area in-game (I walked to him to talk with him in local) .
It took me the time for him to write the ban command and I was perma-ban.



I do not feel bad for saying his name, it is York, if anyone knows him. A very sad person I believe .

W.Darwin, it does sound incredibly frustrating to get permabanned seemingly on someone else's whim. Especially when they tell you to "shut up". That's disrespectful and unnecessary on the part of the admins. But you responded with disrespect of your own, by calling the admin a "control freak". Can you see why that doesn't help anybody?

You didn't deserve the ban or the treatment you got. You definitely could have avoided the ban by reacting differently. In the end, you're not going to change who the admins are or what they choose to do. The only thing you can control is your own behavior. I'm not defending the admins, I'm just encouraging you to take control of the situation yourself instead of asking other people to control it for you.

Anyway, you're probably not going to get help with specific grievances in this thread. I'd take the admin's advice and post in a relevant forum, if you haven't already.

sf17k wrote:W.Darwin, it does sound incredibly frustrating to get permabanned seemingly on someone else's whim. Especially when they tell you to "shut up". That's disrespectful and unnecessary on the part of the admins. But you responded with disrespect of your own, by calling the admin a "control freak". Can you see why that doesn't help anybody?

You didn't deserve the ban or the treatment you got. You definitely could have avoided the ban by reacting differently. In the end, you're not going to change who the admins are or what they choose to do. The only thing you can control is your own behavior. I'm not defending the admins, I'm just encouraging you to take control of the situation yourself instead of asking other people to control it for you.

Anyway, you're probably not going to get help with specific grievances in this thread. I'd take the admin's advice and post in a relevant forum, if you haven't already.

What do you try to say here? :
'' I'm just encouraging you to take control of the situation yourself instead of asking other people to control it for you. ''

''take control of the situation''.
Do you mean to shut up and act as a subordinate looser in front of the superiority of the mighty admin?
Because this would be effective to avoid any bans (:



I dont want to change the admin's behavior. I want them to be kicked out for more mature players.


Also, I do not seek to get unbanned. I was only joining this server because it is popular and most of the time full, and also because I have a pretty good ping in it.

But i learned to appreciete low populated servers. Actually, sometimes 20-30 people servers are as good, even better to play than full servers. You can set up a frontline, you'r not getting flank from all direction, and people tend to be more cooperative with each others.

No. He didnt mean that you have to subordinate to the "mighty admin". There are a lot of values between 0 and 1. Its a virtue to be able to see them.
In this case, we are hearing your versi?n of things, and yes, it sounds unfair. But There is another versi?n of things that we havent yet Heard. I think it takes 2 to dance Tango. I find it hard to believe that some admin is just simply a "control freak" and kicks people for no reason. Maybe there was a misunderstanding, but in order to avoid it, and solve the problem, attitude is everything. If you react by calling people names, you can expect they will do the same, and if they have the power (not the right) to bann you, they will.
Im not saying the admin was right, but the whole situation doesnt seem plausible without further explanation. As the original post said, the right attitude is a great asset.

I am not trying to cause an arguement here, and I'm merely sharing my view on things here, but I don't always agree with some things said.

From what I read I am guessing some people here think that people should just take any insults coming from admins and then say thank you afterwards. At least that's what it looks like to me. That to me sounds very very weird really. To me it's like being smacked in the mouth by someone and saying thank you afterwards. Correct me if I am wrong though.

Well, I am over 40 years old and have been playing online since 1999 and never ever was I in a group where admins were allowed to insult people. If you needed to show an attitude to make people comply to your wishes or have them behave you were not fit as an admin, shouldn't have the ability to be one and actually didn't get the admin status. Now, not everyone has the same mindset, some clans even allow 11 year olds to admin but in my opinion you need to have what it takes. And the admin one of the posters is speaking about certainly is not proper admin material in my books.

Also, this is a game. I really don't see why psychology should be brought into this. And honestly it is in the human's nature to respond to insults. We all do. Those who say they carefully select their words before they reply to what they consider an inappropriate or even personal insult, in my almost 20+ years of gaming I never witnessed that. People will respond, and always with other insults. So, instead of trying to teach people how to take insults and throw in psychology let's turn it around and show the admins how it needs to be done. After all they are the source of the problem.

I agree that the tone of how things are said, and the tone people use to respond, does a lot but come on, allowing admins to say anything they like and act like they want to and then tell others to change their behaviour and responses to them - in my opinion that is like someone in New Orleans saying hey our dams broke so next time the people living near those dams should put sandbags to keep the water at bay. That is not their responsibility, it's the responsibility of those who built them. I guess this may be a rather odd example, and in no way am I trying to use the New Orleans disasters to make a point, but I guess you get the idea.

So in short, where I come from the admins are the people responsible for the atmosphere on a server and the way people are treated. If people disbehave you deal with it in a professional way. Disbehave in the sense of "are you deliberately breaking the rules here". If players would tell me our server sucked because they couldn't do as they pleased I would just tell them "well, I am sorry but this is how we do things here". If they insisted on being an arse to people they were kicked. Being an admin in my books means you are responsible for a server and the atmosphere on it. If the admins are not the best the server will suffer from it. I've played on loads of servers during my online gaming career and boy did I play on some badly adminned servers. There were servers where players were treated like garbage because the admins were all glory boys and thought only they had the right to fly planes, drive tanks and what not. So how would someone respond to that then? I for one would just leave. Others don't just leave, they voice their opinion. It is in our nature.

Just my 5 cents people. Not trying to get in anyone's way but I figured I'd just share my view, and experiences I've had.

Darwin, a simple question. Can you follow instructions?

I really dont know how this fights start...but I do know what you should and shouldnt do to help it from getting worse. And that doesnt mean you should bend to the "almighty admin". You can always speak your mind.
The other day I was a medic, most of my sqd wonded around me, I was pinned down with enemies all around me in the bushes really close (Dovre maa). I had been aiming through the scope for 30 straight secs and took one down. Last time I checked the map I had no active friendlies near me. and suddenly I hear someone running up to me from behind too close. I turned around and fire. Blue on blue, he fell just next to me. He started cursing me telling me how a noob I was, insulting me and being really disrespectful. I was trying to explain him that we both had made a mistake. I pulled the trigger, but he ran up to me in the worst posible time, he could have warned me that "friendly here" or soemthing. From my POV I was surrounded by enemies, and no one should be running anyway.
The thing is that while he was calling me names and being really offensive, I nevertheless used my medic kit to bring him up, and healed him. I was admiting my fault but kept telling him he was wreckless and not communicative. He kept insulting me.
After he was healed, he stood up and went running into the enemy and got killed instantly. It was so ironic.
My point with this story, is that, I did heal a guy that was insulting me, and probably didnt deserve it, but I would undestand anybody that told me that he didnt heal the guy because he was an *******.
Respect and good ways go a long way in solving a problem. Being respectful cant hurt.
Speak your mind, but do so in a way you dont put the other guy in a position where he just wants to Tk you...specially if he is an admin. Or the only medic around... .

I advocate treating admins like equals. Sucking up and being submissive are treating someone like a superior, not an equal. Respecting others also means respecting yourself. If someone's treating you like an inferior, deal with it however you can. Start by respectfully telling them you don't appreciate it. If that doesn't work, fine, go nuts. See what happens.

~~~

To those suggesting we fix the problem by removing or replacing the admins: Okay, who's gonna do it?

Who's gonna pay the server costs? Who's gonna screen the admins? Who's gonna be the admins? You say there's people willing to do all this. Well, where are they?

How about instead of complaining on the forums in hopes that other people dedicate their time and energy to your problems, you learn to deal with your problems by yourself?

Start your own server and hire your own admins. Too expensive? Too much work?

I can see only one other option. Treat admins like equals, hoping they treat you like an equal in return. This is very difficult and even then it won't always work. So, granted, it's not a very attractive option. The only upside is it's something YOU can do WITHOUT RELYING ON OTHERS!

Ultimately, it's up to you. Do you want everyone else to fix your problems, or can you do it yourself?

If you do choose to continue complaining on the forums, tell me how effective it is. I'm curious to know what's the better strategy.

Sk17k,
I see your argument, I think you made good points. Although I also think you lack of speechship and could use of better words.

I will just say, a forum is a place where everyone can expose their opinions so anyone can profit of other people ways of thinking. And this is called ''brainstorming'' a well known way to stimulate the ideas and get a better vision over a subject. I think it is superficial to conceive a forum as a Whining and complain departement. I will not develop anymore on this although.

Yet,
thanks for the support.


Jevski,
I think you are a closed mind just as a very subjective person. I will not elaborate any further. Thanks for the concern.



... And the answer is yes.

Nightinale87
Yes, I have dealt with numerous interaction problematic in my PR lifetime. I am a dedicate medic in the squads and I agree it might be one of the most complex role to play. You have to be to most sensitive player, always looking on your map to spot who is in need the fastest possible. Sometimes people needs assistance quickly and might get frustration in stress of heated warzone. Team kills also happens. But most of the time, I, and people in general, that i used to be in conflict with, would quickly resolve the friction. Unless it was intentionnal goofin/trolling, both part usually recognise the difficulty of the circumstances.

My problem is the banning power. In no case it should be an opportunity to gain personnal issues superiority.

And admin should deal with an other player's issue just as an other player would.

The banning power should only be used if the concerned player is affecting the game itself.
Not the personnal feelings of the man who holds the ban hammer.


Calling an admin a ''control freak''

And to specify, the exact context sounded like '' Well, let me just say one thing before I leave. You really are a control freak, bye. ''

Without any further spamming or harrasement, doesn't justify in any case, the use of such force. And I stand firm on my argument. CelticAlliance also made a statement similar to this. And he clearly seem to know what he is talking about.


Thank you (:

Jevski wrote:Darwin, a simple question. Can you follow instructions?

Need i remind you you lost your admin position few years back when you kept kicking/killing me and supported a racist nationalist guy that accused me of war crimes and i went to report you and it turned out i was right? It was on the MERK server i believe... You have no right to talk about attitude.

milosv123344 wrote:Need i remind you you lost your admin position few years back when you kept kicking/killing me and supported a racist nationalist guy that accused me of war crimes and i went to report you and it turned out i was right? It was on the MERK server i believe... You have no right to talk about attitude.

Just to clarifiy He has never been in the MeRk clan, nor ever had admin rights on MeRk mate. It was another server, not ours.
We stay well away from the topics in this thread and do not associate with admins that show no respect for public players.

Thing is that some admins think they can control players to get the outcome they want. They are the simple ones, logic does not hold sway on their opinions or perspective. These kinds of admins have come and gone, and some have come back again. Banning players for being "disruptive" is such a gray area it's often used by frustrated admins who want a particular player to bend to their will, but that is the wrong approach completely. We all know the good admins from the power hungry morons, but somehow the supporting clan/server host often backs their admin even if it is clearly a piss poor call. It's to show unity and cohesion, and ban appeals are mostly just admins puffing out their chest because you are on "their turf" grovelling from forgiveness.

It's a warped system but it all comes down to how mature the admin is, and from my experience the majority are understanding and level headed. There are however exceptions and we, as players on a server someone other than ourselves have paid for, need to try to get our point of view across to mostly callous and jaded admin teams who have seen and heard a lot of bullshit from a lot of griefers. Just like with everything we have to take the good with the bad, and just hope the idiots find their own way out.

As I've said before in another thread Jevski is a special case.

sf17k wrote:I advocate treating admins like equals. Sucking up and being submissive are treating someone like a superior, not an equal. Respecting others also means respecting yourself. If someone's treating you like an inferior, deal with it however you can. Start by respectfully telling them you don't appreciate it. If that doesn't work, fine, go nuts. See what happens.

Treating admins as equals is a good option for players. But it naturally goes the other way around too. Most players and admins do so as far as I have experienced. The way you describe to pass your concerns is how I do it too but I skip the go nuts part when an admin clearly doesn't understand or is too thick-headed to see my point of view. I will just leave. After all it does make sense to leave a server when it is badly adminned. My experience is they don't care. The more people leave a server the less populated it will be, and eventually they will end up with an empty server.

sf17k wrote:To those suggesting we fix the problem by removing or replacing the admins: Okay, who's gonna do it?

Clan leadership? Those who bought the server?

sf17k wrote:Who's gonna pay the server costs? Who's gonna screen the admins? Who's gonna be the admins? You say there's people willing to do all this. Well, where are they?

Same answer as above.

sf17k wrote:How about instead of complaining on the forums in hopes that other people dedicate their time and energy to your problems, you learn to deal with your problems by yourself?

Start your own server and hire your own admins. Too expensive? Too much work?

I don't take any of this personally, but I actually run and pay for five servers. 2 Arma 2, 2 Arma 3 and 1 PR server. The latter is only used for internal clan events because our clan's main focus is Arma 2 and Arma 3.

When someone approaches us on our forums about any problems they have on our servers, or posts about issues with our servers somewhere else, we don't consider that an effort to make their problems our problems. It is part of the responsibility you have when running a public server. They are visitors of your server so you are the first point of contact for them.

I have learned that once you have public servers you are bound to run into issues with players. It doesn't end with just running a server.

sf17k wrote:I can see only one other option. Treat admins like equals, hoping they treat you like an equal in return.

And this is exactly what I was aiming at. Some admins want to be treated in a certain way but don't return the favour. To me, and many other admins, this is about respect shown and respect given. You need both, not just one of the two.

W.Darwin wrote:CelticAlliance also made a statement similar to this. And he clearly seem to know what he is talking about.

I don't really have all the answers but I have learned over the years respect is earned, not given. Just because you are an admin doesn't mean your say is final. Where I come from there was still someone else calling the shots above me and they were on the ball when even their admins didn't keep the server rules and courtesy in mind.

@all who wish to read this: In short, it comes down to attitude indeed. Of both players and admins. You can't just say players need to do the adjustments, or the other way around. It requires both.

And no, I don't think this is a fight. Just people exchanging opinions.

celticalliance, sorry, my post was in response to other comments. I was a little peeved and could've said it better.

On a good server the admins should be at least as respectful as the players. Definitely. It's their duty to deal with problems.

In the case of a personal conflict, though, you only have direct control over your own behavior, not other people's. So in that situation it's most effective to focus on what you're doing, not what they're doing - in other words, focus on what you can control.

Admins should behave respectfully. But if they don't, you can only lead a horse to water, not make it drink. Focus on yourself first. Lead by example. Be the change you want to see.

Good Evening,

We are all perfect humans.

I've said it so many times, learn your admins. If you are on a particular server, pay attention to the warns, kicks, temp, and perma bans. Look to see which admin has a touchy trigger finger. When they are in the house, sit down, shut up, and play. That doesn't sit well with our current society. No one sits down and listens to the authorities regardless of who is right or wrong. Nowadays, if you get mad, go home and get something to make it even without thinking of the countless number lives you affect directly or indirectly. Ok, I digress here.

Back on track. I've been kicked, I've been temp and perma banned. I can honestly say though, I do not have any perma bans on any server that I'm aware of. I had one on HOG for a bit but it was sorted out. The logs help sort it out. I had the patience to wait for it to work out. I didn't go on other servers and bad mouth all the admins of HOG, I let it run its course. The thing I constantly see is players getting up in folks face and being adamant about why this and why that and who what. I mean really, is getting up in arms about some "perfect human" mistake worth getting your blood pressure up?

Closing on a humorous note, I've seen players get banned off of one server, join another, bad mouth the "ban server" admins, and in the same breath french kiss the admins of the server they are on. If that doesn't say something about their character, I don't know what does.

@sf17k: I was merely sharing my view and didn't take any of your comments personally. So, my response was not meant to address you in person, I quoted your things to bring my thoughts across.

sf17k wrote:Admins should behave respectfully. But if they don't, you can only lead a horse to water, not make it drink. Focus on yourself first. Lead by example. Be the change you want to see.

Exactly. That is what I always did, and hopefully still do, as an admin