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Posted: 2007-01-22 18:59
by Wasteland
jackal22 wrote:any way, some guy jacked a vodnik, parked it up againts a wall and about 10-15 of us managed to climb over it and jump over the other side of the wall... needless to say mec got royaly ****ed
I've heard of this being done but never seen it. You're talking about the wall north-east of the square's archway, yes?
In order to get a vodnik there, you'd be taking a lot of fire from the street immediately east of gardens, and everybody would see what you're doing, wouldn't they?
I say there would be people on that street, as otherwise this is a pretty pointless thing to do. If you can run up that street east of gardens then you don't need the whole vodnik jump.
Posted: 2007-01-22 19:11
by jackal22
no the mec supplied us with a vodnik so we didnt have to drive up a hummer. we were usmc.
Posted: 2007-01-23 15:02
by Determined
'[R-DEV wrote:fuzzhead']In a war, do you REALLY wanna be driving around in an enemy vehicle?
Massive full-scale warfare (what is happening in PR world) would dictate, a constant state of chaos.
Would you REALLY drive around in an enemy marked vehicle? No.
You would never make it home.
Yes of course the skill of driving the car is not much, but I think the realism aspect comes in that, if you WERE to encounter an enemy vehicle, you would either
A) blow it in place.
B) tow it back to your base as spoils of war.
Sure in a rare circumstance a special forces unit MIGHT decide to jack a vehicle, but thats hardly a standard to set in PR. Right now especially in current release, its 50% of the time your driving in an enemy vehicle. That just feels wrong.
This is just from a realism standpoint, here are just a few other reasons to make this important change...
1. TK issues with MEC guys driving Humvees
2. Realism issues with USMC guys driving Nanjings / Insurgents driving Humvees, etc - while on the very rare occasion I could see this occuring in real life, it certainly would not occur nearly as much as it does in PR currently.
3. It's not that realistic that a Jeep is left with the keys in it all the time in a combat zone.. just wouldn't happen and so "stealing" a vehicle just wouldn't be as easy as it is in BF2 / PR.
4. when you exit a non locked vehicle, it leaves a grey vehicle on the minimap visible to all players on both teams. It's a big "they are attacking here" sign.
5. when you enter an unlocked vehicle, it was previously grey and visible to all players, and now it dissapears, so it's like a big sign saying "they are moving out from there"
I think these are poor reasons for changing the ability to use opposing teams vehicles. It's bad enough that you do too much walking (Ghost Train), but then your gonna take this away? It's silly. Oh and you don't "leave keys in your jeep", because the are operated by a knob that you turn. There are no keys. So the idea that someone could just hop in and ride off IS VERY REALISTIC. You can't play the "reality" card only when it suites you. Much about the game is not realistic. I tell you what, not being able to hop in a jeep when I'm in the middle of F#$^&%ng nowhere is VERY unrealistic. There are things you deal with that are not realistic, because they keep the game fun. A medic running around a combat zone with a defribulator bringing people back from the dead that just got shot 20 times is not realistic. So don't play that card. It keeps the game fun though right? The tk example is poor as well. Hell you got a damn mini map and teamates names light up blue. Exercise a little caution. Here is another point. We have just taken an enemy base. All their nice shiny jeeps are sitting there. What do you do? What if an enemy helicopter was to approach, why can you not hop on the mounted gun and fire on it? What no key to start up the machine gun?
Posted: 2007-01-23 15:27
by Wasteland
If you're walking around a lot on OGT it's because your SL is a dumbass. Find another squad or form your own.
This will be good. Force people to use a bit of teamwork.
If you still don't think there's enough transport, form a "taxi" squad and tell your commander to tell the other squads that they can request a pickup and one of your guys will be there with a jeep or LB.
Posted: 2007-01-23 15:28
by gerardnm
Determined wrote:I think these are poor reasons for changing the ability to use opposing teams vehicles. It's bad enough that you do too much walking (Ghost Train), but then your gonna take this away? It's silly. Oh and you don't "leave keys in your jeep", because the are operated by a knob that you turn. There are no keys. So the idea that someone could just hop in and ride off IS VERY REALISTIC. You can't play the "reality" card only when it suites you. Much about the game is not realistic. I tell you what, not being able to hop in a jeep when I'm in the middle of F#$^&%ng nowhere is VERY unrealistic. There are things you deal with that are not realistic, because they keep the game fun. A medic running around a combat zone with a defribulator bringing people back from the dead that just got shot 20 times is not realistic. So don't play that card. It keeps the game fun though right? The tk example is poor as well. Hell you got a damn mini map and teamates names light up blue. Exercise a little caution. Here is another point. We have just taken an enemy base. All their nice shiny jeeps are sitting there. What do you do? What if an enemy helicopter was to approach, why can you not hop on the mounted gun and fire on it? What no key to start up the machine gun?
Lets be realistic for a sec......i could hot wire a car in 30 secs, how about letting the engineer class represent the less desirable skills in the army (as in robbing cars). Now theres a reason enemy vehicles are accessable.
Posted: 2007-01-23 15:35
by Wasteland
Well guys, the main point of making vehicles locked was to eliminate the whole "oh hey, a grey car popped up on a minimap... HEY EVERYBODY!!! INCOMING SQUAD TO THE NORTH EAST!"
Posted: 2007-01-23 15:37
by Determined
gerardnm wrote:Lets be realistic for a sec......i could hot wire a car in 30 secs, how about letting the engineer class represent the less desirable skills in the army (as in robbing cars). Now theres a reason enemy vehicles are accessable.
lol there is no need for that. Most don't need a traditional key to operate. It would not be feesible on the battlefield. I mean when the S*&t hits the fan, who has time to look for the keys? lol They are mostly push button operated.
Wasteland.Soldier, not everyone in pubs is as LEET as you. It's too simple to say well just tell your commander to blah balh blah, and your squad leader this and that. Um first off you have to HAVE a commander. Which is not always the case while pubbing. While PR has made great strives in motivating pubbers to use teamwork, not everythign is perfect. Not being able to use and an empty jeep IS unrealistic and stupid. Most maps are huge and require lots of walking since there are either too few vehicles(64 players, two jeeps) and the respawn times of said vehicles can be long. The amount of vehicles and spawn times are not issues if you can hijack a simple jeep.
Posted: 2007-01-23 15:38
by Determined
JP*wasteland.soldier wrote:Well guys, the main point of making vehicles locked was to eliminate the whole "oh hey, a grey car popped up on a minimap... HEY EVERYBODY!!! INCOMING SQUAD TO THE NORTH EAST!"
This happens whether the vehicle is locked or not. Again, not a valid point why to lock the jeeps.
Posted: 2007-01-23 15:50
by Rusty_FunP
actually, it does not. Tanks and APC's which are abandoned do not appear on the minimap.
Wouldn't it be easier to just hide all the abandoned vehicles on the minimap, you could still board and capture cars and be oblivious to incoming danger of emptied jeeps.
Posted: 2007-01-23 16:00
by Wasteland
Determined wrote:This happens whether the vehicle is locked or not. Again, not a valid point why to lock the jeeps.
Not true.
And I don't think you can block grey vehicles from the minimap.
Posted: 2007-01-23 16:05
by Determined
Intersting. last night I was playing and an enemy hopped out of his tank to repair it and it appeard gray on my mini map. Again, I think it silly. I mean boats are gray right? Are you going to make team specific boats so to fix this supposed problem? The solution is not to lock jeeps, but to fix the gray minimap icon.
Posted: 2007-01-23 16:09
by Wasteland
If you physically saw the tank, it's possible it showed up on your minimap. Not if it was behind a ridge or something though.
Posted: 2007-01-23 16:13
by Determined
Which doesn't explain why I can see abondoned helis. Again, fix the gray vehicle issue, don't lock the jeeps. If your going to make a point be consistant. What about the boats? Leave the simple vehicles alone and fix the icon. Don't add 30 more maps, fix the icon.
Posted: 2007-01-23 16:16
by Wasteland
It's not like they can change anything they feel like changing. There's a lot of things that are hardcoded. At the moment, the only thing I've ever seen gray on the map that let me know an ambush was coming is the jeeps and vodniks.
Besides, do you really think that in a battle you'd see just as many people riding around in friendly vehicles as enemy ones? I don't think you would.
Posted: 2007-01-23 16:20
by Determined
Boats. lol You forgot boats. Now your gonna make me take screenshots of gray vehicles on my map that are enemy tonight.
Again, there are things you deal with because it keeps the game moving and fun. Smaller maps it's a non issue. On the larger ones where transportation is few and far between it makes a world of difference.
Posted: 2007-01-23 16:50
by jackal22
i have to agree the game shouldnt over relly on teamwork, might as well change the name to clan reality mod.
there are no comanders on the popular servers-fact because they plain suck for doing anything now.
relying on a squad is ok but come on there is only 1 or maybe 2 decent squads per server and they are perpetually at a state of 6/6
AS for the whole grey issue, so irl you wouldnt hear a enemy jeep comming near to your flag? and most vehicles have a specific sound to them,
eg. ww1/2 pilots and ground crew could instictively tell whether it was friendly or enemy plane by the sound of the engines alone before they could see them, same more or less vaguely applies to vehicles.
therefore having a grey icon on the mini map isnt all that UN-realistic.
Posted: 2007-01-23 16:53
by Determined
jackal22 wrote:i have to agree the game shouldnt over relly on teamwork, might as well change the name to clan reality mod.
there are no comanders on the popular servers-fact because they plain suck for doing anything now.
relying on a squad is ok but come on there is only 1 or maybe 2 decent squads per server and they are perpetually at a state of 6/6
AS for the whole grey issue, so irl you wouldnt hear a enemy jeep comming near to your flag? and most vehicles have a specific sound to them,
eg. ww1/2 pilots and ground crew could instictively tell whether it was friendly or enemy plane by the sound of the engines alone before they could see them, same more or less vaguely applies to vehicles.
therefore having a grey icon on the mini map isnt all that UN-realistic.
The voice of reason. lol
Posted: 2007-01-23 17:37
by MadTommy
Only being able to use your own team’s vehicles WILL promote teamwork.
And what is wrong with humping (walking) across a map? Ghost Train is a small map! Jeeze!
The desire to race from fire fight to fire fight in any available vehicle is very ‘nilla’ and I assume the devs are trying to move away from that type of gameplay.
AND the grey vehicle popping up is a tactic I use almost every round I play!.. it’s a dead giveaway to enemy attacks.
EDIT : Don't forget the new spawn in 0.5 - mobile spawn stuff - it will be your Squad Leaders fault if you have to walk long distances time after time on a map - If i understand the rumours that are abound.
Posted: 2007-01-23 17:53
by Determined
MadTommy wrote:Only being able to use your own team’s vehicles WILL promote teamwork.
And what is wrong with humping (walking) across a map? Ghost Train is a small map! Jeeze!
The desire to race from fire fight to fire fight in any available vehicle is very ‘nilla’ and I assume the devs are trying to move away from that type of gameplay.
AND the grey vehicle popping up is a tactic I use almost every round I play!.. it’s a dead giveaway to enemy attacks.
EDIT : Don't forget the new spawn in 0.5 - mobile spawn stuff - it will be your Squad Leaders fault if you have to walk long distances time after time on a map - If i understand the rumours that are abound.
You walk a fine line between realism, and annoying. Walking for 5 minutes, getting killed, waiting 30 seconds, walking 5 minutes, getting tked, waiting 31 secoinds. It's not fun.
Being able to use an empty jeep has zero to do with teamwork. Sitting in the middle of the desert with nothing within 500 meters of you but sand is not fun. Walking forever is not fun. If you like it so much make a mod where you do nothing but walk. Yes you have to hump at times, but on a huge map with 64 people, flags with no spawn points, and 2 jeeps, you ahve to walk too much.
I think the game the way it is set up now makes you want to be cautious enough and use teamwork. It is real enough. You start micro managing everything little detail you lose what makes PR fun. ITS A GAME! lol
I want a reason as to why I can't hop in an empty jeep and use the mounted gun? Again, everyone is dancing around my point about the boats. Boats are usable by both sides and appear gray on your minimap. Yet you want to lock jeeps? It makes no sense.
Posted: 2007-01-23 17:56
by Wasteland
jackal22 wrote:AS for the whole grey issue, so irl you wouldnt hear a enemy jeep comming near to your flag? and most vehicles have a specific sound to them,
eg. ww1/2 pilots and ground crew could instictively tell whether it was friendly or enemy plane by the sound of the engines alone before they could see them, same more or less vaguely applies to vehicles.
therefore having a grey icon on the mini map isnt all that UN-realistic.
You can hear vehicles approaching in game as well, duh.
EDIT: Nobody's dancing around your boat issue. As I already said, the only time I've ever noticed an incoming squad because of a gray minimap icon has been with jeeps and vodniks. And that happens all the freaking time. I've never had it happen with boats. And besides, there's only one boat model that's used by everybody. Maybe if there were more models we'd have them locked.