Project Reality Forums

Piipu wrote:The reason manpads feel so useless these days is that all ground to air missiles have been nerfed to total uselessness for some reason. The miss chance for a single missile against a target dropping flares has been changed from the earlier value of 75-15% depending on the missile to 90% across all missiles, as Chuva_RD posted on this post. Let me break down what this means.

Realistically, every time you're trying to shoot at a chopper, they're going to drop flares due to the warning already sounding when you're still locking the target. This means that practically every missile you ever get to fire has a 90% chance of missing. This already sounds pretty terrible since most of the time the one shot is all you're going to get, and you need a solid hit to actually bring down a chopper instead of just annoying the pilot a bit.

With a 90% chance of missing, you'll have to fire 7 missiles to have a kill chance of over 50%. Let's say you have a FOB with the AA platform built. That's going to have time for two shots before having to reload. This translates to a 1-0,9^2=19% chance of killing a chopper. If that chopper is a CAS, you know it's going to have a 100% chance of killing the AA launcher if those missiles don't hit, so the CAS chopper in this scenario has a 81% chance of winning.

Even with a manpad near enough the FOB to fire as well, the win chance for the CAS pilot is 73% if all three missiles can fire before the CAS pilot has time to take any of them out. To have a better than even chance against the CAS, right now you'd need to have 3 AA platforms as well as the manpad on the fob. Those 7 missiles launched against the CAS would have a 52% chance of scoring a kill.

Don't try telling me that these numbers sound okay to you. What the nerf to AA has caused is that if you want to have an even chance of downing a CAS, you have to pool all your team's AA assets into a single point, which the CAS pilot can then avoid due to the limited range of AA in PR. This basically gives CAS almost complete freedom to just stomp all ground assets with impunity as long as the enemy can't bring about any air-based AA. That doesn't sound like a fun game for anyone apart from the two players in the CAS.

'dalianplant[x64 wrote:;2126962']M8, you don't know shit about how CAS is done.If you think it's so easy then angry words blah blah I'm the greatest

Piipu wrote:The teamwork required by CAS is not that relevant to my argument. What I'm saying is that you need to pool literally all your team's AA assets together to have a decent chance of even scoring a kill against enemy CAS. And on maps like Saaremaa where you don't have any AAVs, the best you can do is one AA placement that gets nuked quickly like you described, plus one manpad who's not gonna do much alone. Just locking the enemy CAS won't do all that much either, since they can just fly away and go kill stuff somewhere else. It doesn't matter how much teamwork that requires if the CAS is basically invulnerable to AA altogether.

Another thing I'd like to note that 5 men on a TS channel isn't anything special. Most of those full squads that you kill are all more than five people together in VOIP. Of course maybe they don't count since they're not part of your special CAS circle, so they don't need to have fun while playing.

'dalianplant[x64 wrote:;2126967']Well I really can't understand how you can't kill shit with a kit that requires nothing but aim and shoot (you don't need 8 people to operate a fucking anti-air), and when I use it i hit helis with everyshot and then they either start smoking/burning and RTB or just die.
I'm playing my best and 8 men that are just playing the game ignoring the fact that CAS exists will then complain why they got killed and how AA is useless.Maybe it's time to acknowledge the fact that you might die if you run out in the open like a headless chicken.
Also the guy who made this thread played ONE round where his team got rekt because they didn't build stationary AAs.Perhaps if he instead of coming to complain, tried to build AA he might have had some chance.

Well I really can't understand how you can't kill shit with a kit that requires nothing but aim and shoot

Piipu wrote:M8 I don't know when you've last played AA, but it's nerfed to shit from what it used to be. Sure you can still occasionally get lucky, but only one out of ten missiles hitting the target is just ridiculous.

I also like how you assume that OP has to be a 'headless chicken' since they're complaining about CAS being too good. Sounds to me like you don't have any better response to my arguments. I posted proof saying AA has turned to shit in the latest patch or two and that needs to change. Do you have any counterpoint to my argument or are you just here to fling shit at anyone who wants ground units to be useful in this game?

Updated AA missiles to have higher gravity and reduced deviation. Overall increased AA effectiveness.
Updated handheld AA missiles to get less distracted when having a locked target.

Updated AA missile physics to not pull up straightly when they have no lock.