Jets in 1.4

[FFG]

There's something very weird going on with the A10. If you nose dive (~-60 angle) 1200+speed and pitch back max until you're at about +45 angle again, the A10 will enter an uncontrollable loop and just keep on going and there's nothing you can do to counteract it (forward pitch/roll/yaw does nothing), so if you're too close to the ground it'll stall itself and smack down belly first in the ground. I've also noticed several occasions where I seem to loose control for a bit and the aircraft just keeps on going where it's currently going. It also pulls slightly to the left when taxing. Aside from taxing these problems only really occur when the speed goes above ~1100.

Its intentional.

[rPoXoTauJIo]

There's something very weird going on with the A10. If you nose dive (~-60 angle) 1200+speed and pitch back max until you're at about +45 angle again, the A10 will enter an uncontrollable loop and just keep on going and there's nothing you can do to counteract it (forward pitch/roll/yaw does nothing), so if you're too close to the ground it'll stall itself and smack down belly first in the ground. I've also noticed several occasions where I seem to loose control for a bit and the aircraft just keeps on going where it's currently going.

Its intentional.

Partially. This one affecting all jets in some way(still waiting till someone make fragmovie with cobra used in dogfight ), but on a-10 stalling speed just too close to cruise speed and plane behaving too weird.

It also pulls slightly to the left when taxing.

Its intentional.

This one fully intentional.(both because DCS as ref and need of re-export for fix )

[Rezza]

Can agree on the A-10 being a little off. But overall the new flight mechanics gave a lot of character to the planes. Now it feels like you have to get some more feel to it to be able to master some moves that are possible. Really moving forward in the right direction.

[DogACTUAL]

Jets take off way too easily imo, only needing minimal runway space until they can lift off, especially the multirole and fighter aircraft, will that be changed later?

[rPoXoTauJIo]

Jets take off way too easily imo, only needing minimal runway space until they can lift off, especially the multirole and fighter aircraft, will that be changed later?

Unfortunately, i'm limited here by such maps like silent eagle and bijar canyons. Unless they'll loose jets layers, doubt will do much here although will try my best.

[DogACTUAL]

No problem mate, it is a minor issue anyway. I am really grateful that you came along and gave us this awesome flightmodel.

[LimitJK]

on kashan coop with canada the f18 (i believe) drifts to the left on start and to the right on landing, not sure if intended (f18cas is fine).

[rPoXoTauJIo]

on kashan coop with canada the f18 (i believe) drifts to the left on start and to the right on landing, not sure if intended (f18cas is fine).

The bot one's or human jets?

[LimitJK]

just the bots, my bad.

[rPoXoTauJIo]

Well still, not very intended it's just me weren't updating _sp jets

[anantdeathhawk]

Yep,same problem. You need to be on +150 meters before you press S and push nose up a litte bit. Then when nose star going down just pull it up as fast as possible. Then its all ok!!!

Didn't help, still nose diving like a dolphine.On falklands it doesn't matters much as the mostly you get shot down,but on modern maps, i am unable to land it.
To [R-CON]rPoXoTauJIo: How do you land harriers? ??: any tips?

[mectus11]

To [R-CON]rPoXoTauJIo: How do you land harriers? ??: any tips?

Make sure you're at 200 altitude and keep holding S(down) until you go into vtol mode and then gently tap S(down) until you land.

[DogACTUAL]

Given the latest thread that was made to complain about the new flight model i just want to say that like many i think the new flight model only improved jets.

To be honest i was positively surprised that someone made the effort to improve the jet physics since the devs' priorities seemed to be in different places. Like many others said the physics before where very bland and boring, making dogfights very repetitive and less immersive.

Sure the physics might still need some fine tuning here and there, but overall they are almost perfect imo. Now you can actually use the throttle way more to pull of some manouvers and actually need to watch that you do not yank the jet to much when turning!

And on some jets shaking when trying to change direction rapidly, maybe even increase it, if you play DCS you see that it is actually way more prevalent there and jets are way harder to control, so you really have to watch how much input you give with the controls.

Jets are much more balanced now, after the update i never saw a jet that was really that much superior to all the others like it was before.

Most of the complaints seem to be just because people are distraught by the new flight model because it is such a big change and they are kind of pissed that they have to learn it all over again but they seem confuse it with the model being bad. I can understand where they are coming from but i think they just have to cool down a bit and get used to it.

Not saying they are worse than me btw, some of them actually did better in dogfights than me after the update, so plz don't get mad at me lol.

[DogACTUAL]

Also PSA for people having trouble landing the harrier. When going from normal flight to hover mode or the other way around, at a certain speed, while almost hovering your pitch control will get inverted for a short period.

That's why you nose dive the harrier into the water when you are trying to pull up the nose by pitching back, you are actually doing the opposite. To pull up the jet in that instance you have to use the reverse controls of what you would normally use to pitch the plane, so instead of pitching back pitch foward instead.
Once you are in complete hover mode the controls will be normal again.

Because of this you can actually take off from the side of the carrier without the need to use its long runway, right were the jet stands when it appears. Just get in and apply maximum throttle like you would normally do, but when the jet starts going keep pitching forward instead and you will make it of the carrier.

I think real harriers are capable of this kind of extremely short takeoff too, because of their nozzles being able to provide enough upward thrust, but they probably don't do it because it is too risky.

Discovered all of that in a testing session a day after the update.

[rPoXoTauJIo]

Because of this you can actually take off from the side of the carrier without the need to use its long runway, right were the jet stands when it appears. Just get in and apply maximum throttle like you would normally do, but when the jet starts going keep pitching forward instead and you will make it of the carrier.

Working on it.

[DogACTUAL]

Why? I think a real harrier would be capable of such a feat, considering it can also take off vertically if needed. They don't call it jump jet for nothing lol.

Plz keep the extremely short take off it's a nice gimmick.

[Rhino]

Why? I think a real harrier would be capable of such a feat, considering it can also take off vertically if needed. They don't call it jump jet for nothing lol.

Plz keep the extremely short take off it's a nice gimmick.

I don't know how many times we have to say this, but the Harrier is not a Combat Capable" vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) aircraft, meaning it can't take off vertically when fully loaded with fuel and weapons as it is simply to heavy to do so and it can only take off vertically, or hover for that matter, when it is carrying no or very little in the way of weapons, and has very little fuel left in its tank. This is one of the major drawbacks of the Harrier is it had to drop its bombs in the sea if it didn't use them on the mission, in order to be able to land on a carrier, as well as having to dump fuel if they had to much. The "Vertical Take-Off" party trick, is saved for airshows where it doesn't need to carry any weapons, or have much fuel in its tanks, let alone any need to carry external fuel tanks, and for some very specific combat situations, the only time I can think of where its vertical take-off ability was really used in a combat-ish situation, was when the Atlantic Conveyor, transporting extra Harriers down to the Falklands, had to have its harriers take off vertically from it to transfer them to the carriers, since it had no runway, but then again, they were carrying no weapons and little fuel to do that.

The Harrier is instead a Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) Aircraft, when kitted out for any combat mission, which means it needs very little in the way of a runway to take off, but it still needs one, and then when it has come back from its mission after (hopefully) dropping its bombs on the enemy and with little fuel in its tanks (if not it needs to drop the bombs in the sea and dump some fuel), it can then land vertically. This is why "Harrier Carriers" (or STOVL Carriers as they are actually know as), still have a short runway and in the case of the British, Italian, and Indian STOVL Carriers, have a Ski-Jump to also help reduce how much runway they need again.


Unforantly we can't simulate weapon or fuel weight on the BF2 engine so we have to work around this to try and simulate this, and fyi, taking off the side of the carrier from where the jet spawns and just going straight forwards is even less realistic than a VTOL take-off and is truly an exploit in my mind since it massively cuts down the time to take off, where vertical take-offs take longer than a STOVL take off.

[viirusiiseli]

Jets cant turn while pulling up.

Losing control of the jet while turning normally.

Drag in doing barrel rolls, not realistic at all (watch any video of jets turning ever)

Pulling up is too drastic, every jet is a J10 now. The delay of it and the angle are not realistic or good in any way regarding gameplay

Overall, sad to say but a very prematurely released feature that shouldnt be live tested on game servers but use the testers you have for this purpose. Sadly, again, these premature features seem to be released now more often, like it is a custom.

[DogACTUAL]

I don't know how many times we have to say this, but the Harrier is not a Combat Capable" vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) aircraft, meaning it can't take off vertically when fully loaded with fuel and weapons as it is simply to heavy to do so and it can only take off vertically, or hover for that matter, when it is carrying no or very little in the way of weapons, and has very little fuel left in its tank.

But... But i saw youtube vids...
You are right. I will admit when i was wrong.

I didn't consider the load and reading up on jump jet it was always declared that is is vertical takeoff without any mention of the need to have little weight to do so.

With that said... Is gun ammo and two aim 9s really a full load(when ignoring the ground attack variants)? You said it can still carry a little amount of weapons.

And when you are doing the takeoff of the side of the carrier you have over 200km/h speed displayed on the HUD which would make it over around 100 km/h for the real speed value. The jet also barely makes it into the air, almost touching the surface of the water after leaving the flight deck.
And the tail section is dragging low behind it while the whole jet is tilted at a significant upward angle, so the main jet engine is also generating a good amount of upward thrust on top of the nozzles doing it, unlike a normal vertical takeoff.

This takeoff really looks like it is just barely possible, so much so that after i taught people how to do it, some would still refuse to use it.

All of those things considered, the takoff could be plausible imo, although only a real pilot would really know and i am no expert on this.

[PricelineNegotiator]

Can you release a hotfix to revert back to normal while you perfect these new physics?