This sounds good in theory, but dice rolling has no place in online FPS. Adding randomness would only cause further frustration.Fracsid wrote: Going to repeat myself here again and say that the answer is having a random damage range. For example, the 7.62 NATO battle rifle unarmored torso to 50m would be a range from 80 to 110, causing some shots to instantly kill and others not. This
RNG is the worst way to do this since it adds even more to inconsistency.Fracsid wrote:I am strongly against arbitrary damage values based on balance. There are just better ways to increase realism AND balance at the same time.
Going to repeat myself here again and say that the answer is having a random damage range. For example, the 7.62 NATO battle rifle unarmored torso to 50m would be a range from 80 to 110, causing some shots to instantly kill and others not. This mitigates the chief current complaint about balance, and leans towards a better representation of the uncertainty of terminal ballistics. The damage ranges would apply to every weapon and caliber, and could be played with for balance reasons without breaking realism by assigning arbitrary damage values to weapons.
Depending on the method of implementation of these damage ranges, there could be a representation of the small chance of an armor plate catastrophically failing, or hitting an area not covered by the plate. The damage range for 5.56mm on an armored torso to 50m, for example, could be 20-40, but heavily weighted on the lower end so that only a very small percentage of shots make the max damage.
Weighted damage ranges would also allow balance tweaking without stepping outside a reasonable realm of realism.
5.56mm M855 with its fragmentation velocity threshold could be represented as well, with the damage range expanding in the lower end past 200m, where the fragmentation is generally no longer certain. It could look, for example, as 100-200m on an unarmored torso 30-50, then past 200 it could be 20-50 somewhat weighted on the lower end. Once it hits 300 it could drop steeply to match 5.45, since its wounding mechanisms beyond there are most likely yawing and cavitation like 5.45.
Someone else can decide on specific numbers for these ranges (I'm happy to provide input as a student of terminal ballistics), but the base idea is really the best way forward here to enhance the gameplay if it's possible to implement.
Edit:
Also, +1 for adjusting damage values based on barrel length and velocity.
Yes, that's better. It really shouldn't take more than 3 body shots to kill, at such distances you're likely to hit other body parts anyway. I'd remove the dropoff completely.Vista wrote:But after some discussion with someone, and if the 3 shot kill at 300m is so important, I have absolutely no problem making it happen.
I can give the NATO rifles 34 damage and dropoff at 400m like it was before. (The 400m would also be applied to the other rifles)
Explain "laggy BUIS."Vista wrote:For the third time, if I had let it stay like that after the 5.56 changes, it would become the worst rifle in the game due to bad recoil and laggy BUIS.
Just because you had fun killing the INS on al basrah last week, doesn't take much time untill you hop into AAS and realise the weapon's shortcomings.
He sad like 5 times that he doesnt know how to fix recoil...Allahu Akbar wrote:Explain "laggy BUIS."
Again, if recoil is bad then fix recoil; not magic bullet.
I think it's bullshit he can find damage for a weapon but can't find where recoil file is.Aleksa2000SM wrote:He sad like 5 times that he doesnt know how to fix recoil...
This is easy.[R-DEV]Mats391 wrote: MG3 is 900rpm so should have less damage than M240?
SKS is semi only so should have more damage than AKM?
L1A1 is semi only so should have more damage than FAL?
Code: Select all
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilGraphExponent 0.5
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilGraphFrameCount 4
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilGraphTotalMovement 1
Yeah, I do think that after some of the changes I made, 5.56 600RPM rifles (more specifically the L85A2) need a bit of love. In the previous version I felt the L85 was lagging behind a bit (mostly due to its recoil and slow RPM), but as I said, changing the bullet type was the solution I found. Maybe making the 5.56 600RPM variations seems like a good idea. In this engine (due to the hit detection) shooting faster is a big advantage. I'm however a bit hesitant in adding it to the G36 since I feel its recoil is much more manageable than the L85, but we'll see. I'll look into the bullet type thing.[R-DEV]Mats391 wrote:We really do appreciate someone spending time and actually suggest changes rather then just "revert plx"
If you really think weapon damage should be balanced based on rate of fire, I would suggest to do it properly and not just randomly assign different calibers to some weapons. Nothing stops you from making a "556_45_600rpm" or "556_45_900rpm" projectile.
As long as I keep them a 3 shot kill center body mass untill 400M, it's fine. Please note that most of these changes are meant to be slight tweaks. Only way of balancing correctly is to do small ish changes (so it doesn't break gameplay wink wink) and collect feedback, adjust again rinse and repeat...[R-DEV]Mats391 wrote: Then it completely disregards semi auto fire which even 900rpm weapons have to use a lot. I feel the entire approach assumes you only shoot them full auto all the time.
Obviously this becomes a bit tricky since we have to respect the weapons' real life counter parts. MG3 has fuck tons of visual recoil when spraying so no.[R-DEV]Mats391 wrote: MG3 is 900rpm so should have less damage than M240?
SKS is semi only so should have more damage than AKM?
L1A1 is semi only so should have more damage than FAL?
and because they'd like a more medium range aproach to things. Also keep in mind that I only considered adding a different bullet type to the L85 as a special measure since I felt that weapon was UP. I'm most likely not going to do that for most other weapons. If it ain't broke don't fix it.The version (or rather 'changelog') in the OP is not updated, I'll have to do that soon, but I'm going to give 5.56 NATO 34 damage to ensure a 3 shot kill at 400M. I'll also need to rethink 7.62 damage values, you're right on that. It's just that theres like 3 7.62 variants (x39,x51,x54) that differentiating them is going to be tough, maybe 1 damage difference each? Same for the chinese bullet - I'll give it a revision.[R-DEV]Mats391 wrote:Just looking at how many shots to kill are needed also is not enough. In your current values the 556 is 33 damage and 580 is 41. Against body armor both are 3 shots to kill, but this changes when shooting unarmored targets. With you 1.4 modifier those values become 46.2 and 57.4, so 580 only needs 2 shots here. Even when using the 1.2 modifier on upper legs you get to 49.2 on the 580 which is pretty much 2 shot.
The amount of health you survive with also makes big difference. 2 hits from 556 leave you with comfy 33hp, 2 hits from 580 with only 18hp. Especially on longer ranges where you use single fire (no 900rpm bonus) and often only wound your targets this makes a big difference. Your changes might fix CQB 900rpm, but make those weapons terrible when having to switch to single fire.
Actually there's 6:Vista wrote:It's just that theres like 3 7.62 variants (x39,x51,x54) that differentiating them is going to be tough, maybe 1 damage difference each? Same for the chinese bullet - I'll give it a revision.
Code: Select all
-Nerfed 5.56 to 34 damage, ensuring a 3 shot kill at 400M.
-QBZ-95, G3, MG3, M14, AK-47 and AKM kept their previous model damage.
-Added new 5.56 600RPM bullet to G36 and L85A2.
-Added Semi-Automatic 7.62x39 version for Simonov.
-Changed Damage Multiplier on un-armored soldiers to 1.4x.
-Slight buff to AK-74M and RPK-74M.No,no,no. All semi-automatic rifle should be 2 shot kill. I think that best specially because they fight mostly 3 shot automatic rifles.obpmgmua wrote: Also the SKS buff is way too high. 3-4 shots is perfect.
That's great and all, but I need a 'base' version of this damage model to be implemented before I start creating custom bullet damage modifiers and such.Rabbit wrote:Imo, 5.56 should be more powerful against body armor than 5.45, but against soft targets 5.45 should be better.