Project Reality Forums

I usually crouch -> iron site (or not if he's too close) -> fire (got crouch hot fixed on my 4th mouse button so I'm almost always moving around in crouch). Rarely do I instaprone in CQB. So I'm already roughly pointing at their midsection, so if they try and dive down on me I just slightly move mouse down with them and continue to spray and pray. Usually puts em off. Of course if they don't go prone on ya, I still like being in a crouched position able to aim chest/neck/head upwards in one firing motion of the clip.

Set a 1.5-2 second delay from prone landing to being able to fire.
Could also maybe shake the player view when you land for a second or so. (if this engine allows)

I hate prone divers, not because I can't kill them sometimes I do (30%ish)
It just destroys the illusion of the simulation for me.

Determined wrote:Okay, you can't shoot while jumping. You can't shoot while sprinting. You can only shoot once you hit the ground. Now this is usually a gripe that is really about nothing. Because of lag and all that, on your side it appears that your opponent shot while in mid prone or maybe while jumping. WHen in reality he was fully proned or fired before he dropped.

Also, I have stated before that a normal human firing a weapon can do this. Usually it takes place in close quarters.... so basically within 10 feet. Now, almost anyone can walk, drop to prone and hit something that close. I know I can do it at distances greater than that.

Seems like a silly argument.

Uh, I would love to see two guys round a corner and dive forward with a full length assault rifle and shoot at each other the second they hit the ground. Sorry, but no. This isn't some Hong Kong action flick. People don't instantly drop to the ground and have perfect accuracy the second they're down in real life. Even within 10 feet I doubt your accuracy would be that great if you hit the ground hard with all your equipment while holding an assault rifle with two hands. At the least, the impact would completely throw your aim off until you had time to adjust, which would take a second or two at the bare minimum. It's downright stupid when you can have the drop on someone and have your sights up only for them to round a corner, hit the deck, and fire a burst in your face before you can get a round off.

I dare you to go load yourself up with a bunch of equipment, helmet, kevlar vest, extra mags, grenades, and a full length assault rifle, and run as fast as you can and then immediately hit the deck, HARD. I mean instantly dropping to the ground. Then shoot at something close to you. Chances are if you aren't already a bit shaken up from hitting the ground so hard with all your equipment on, you still won't be able to touch a target at nearly any distance. As it stands people who are 50 meters away do this, and hit each other.

Sneak Attack wrote: you should be able to go down right away, just not be able to shoot for around a second.

one second is unrealistic

highly-trained individuals can do incredible things

many of the techniques used in PRBF2 should have to be considered
mnemonics, short-hand, for real life techniques. If you practise something
enough you will get better at it, but there is no facility in PRBF2 to reward expertise and practise with speed increase

that said, I rarely use the M4 and don't insta-prone as much as I did when I first began playing PRBF2

the cornucopia of real life potential skills can not be represented in PRBF2 -
the limited skill set available has to substitute for other specialties

one second might be *nice* for gaming but is hardly realistic - a highly trained individual has probably identified and taken down a target (or more than one) in the first second of CQB

insta-proning is one thing, a bigger ***** is the virtual visual non-existence of grass over longer distances in jungles in PRBF2...

Smitty4212 wrote:Uh, I would love to see two guys round a corner and dive forward with a full length assault rifle and shoot at each other the second they hit the ground. Sorry, but no. This isn't some Hong Kong action flick. People don't instantly drop to the ground and have perfect accuracy the second they're down in real life. Even within 10 feet I doubt your accuracy would be that great if you hit the ground hard with all your equipment while holding an assault rifle with two hands. At the least, the impact would completely throw your aim off until you had time to adjust, which would take a second or two at the bare minimum. It's downright stupid when you can have the drop on someone and have your sights up only for them to round a corner, hit the deck, and fire a burst in your face before you can get a round off.

I dare you to go load yourself up with a bunch of equipment, helmet, kevlar vest, extra mags, grenades, and a full length assault rifle, and run as fast as you can and then immediately hit the deck, HARD. I mean instantly dropping to the ground. Then shoot at something close to you. Chances are if you aren't already a bit shaken up from hitting the ground so hard with all your equipment on, you still won't be able to touch a target at nearly any distance. As it stands people who are 50 meters away do this, and hit each other.

I am in the Army. I own an M4 peronally. I can tell you now in full gear I can drop to the prone and fire on a target 100 feet away and hit it. I could take my three year old daughter, blindfold her, and she could fall down and hit it. Your talking about 10 feet or less, so you have a 100% chance of hitting your target. Is this a tactic that happens in real life? No, but you also don't respawn in real life. The more you try to put a players movements into tracks, the less flexible and more robot like you feel. My suggestion to you all is get better aim, because I have no problems killing anythign that comes around a corner. Standing or otherwise.

Determined wrote:I am in the Army. I own an M4 peronally. I can tell you now in full gear I can drop to the prone and fire on a target 100 feet away and hit it. I could take my three year old daughter, blindfold her, and she could fall down and hit it. Your talking about 10 feet or less, so you have a 100% chance of hitting your target. Is this a tactic that happens in real life? No, but you also don't respawn in real life. The more you try to put a players movements into tracks, the less flexible and more robot like you feel. My suggestion to you all is get better aim, because I have no problems killing anythign that comes around a corner. Standing or otherwise.

Christ, when did the US Army start teaching all of their troops to drop to the ground when clearing a room and fire maniacally, well, just goes to show what we know.

Its not realistic, regardless of how much military experience you have, it is both annoying and idiotic, "I am in the Army, and i can do it", something that i hear on these boards every 3 hours, "I was in the RAF, we did it this way", "I was in the REME and we did it this way", realistic or not it effects gameplay, and from what ive seen the best ideas are those that have no basis on reality (atleast on these boards)

As for the "I suggest you all get better aim" comment im not even going to start.

What you have to remember is that in real life you have no lag and the hit detection in real life is very good apparently

BlackwaterEddie wrote:Christ, when did the US Army start teaching all of their troops to drop to the ground when clearing a room and fire maniacally, well, just goes to show what we know.

Its not realistic, regardless of how much military experience you have, it is both annoying and idiotic, "I am in the Army, and i can do it", something that i hear on these boards every 3 hours, "I was in the RAF, we did it this way", "I was in the REME and we did it this way", realistic or not it effects gameplay, and from what ive seen the best ideas are those that have no basis on reality (atleast on these boards)

As for the "I suggest you all get better aim" comment im not even going to start.

What you have to remember is that in real life you have no lag and the hit detection in real life is very good apparently

You missed the point completely. I didn't say it is something you would do in real life. I wanted to counter all those saying it is impossible. It is quite possible and easily done. You could shoot one handed between your legs, backwards and hit something 10 feet away. Would I do it next time I'm doing CQB training? Hell no. This is a game and you have to be careful how much you limit ones mobility. Some things are simulated because you can't really produce them in game. You can't lean around a corner, or blind fire in this game right? In other games yes, but not this one.

Determined wrote:I am in the Army. I own an M4 peronally. I can tell you now in full gear I can drop to the prone and fire on a target 100 feet away and hit it. I could take my three year old daughter, blindfold her, and she could fall down and hit it. Your talking about 10 feet or less, so you have a 100% chance of hitting your target. Is this a tactic that happens in real life? No, but you also don't respawn in real life. The more you try to put a players movements into tracks, the less flexible and more robot like you feel. My suggestion to you all is get better aim, because I have no problems killing anythign that comes around a corner. Standing or otherwise.

Well, unless you can video tape yourself hitting the deck hard and instantly hitting a target "100 feet away", I won't believe you. I'm not in the Army, I don't own an M4 personally, but I do know what's reasonable and what isn't. The only comparable experience I have, which isn't really that comparable, but still, is paintballing. I've "hit the dirt hard", with no gear on, carrying a lightweight paintball gun that is significantly less cumbersome to carry and aim than a full length assault rifle, and I can't even shoot for a few seconds until I get adjusted to being on the ground and getting the gun in a good position. I'm sorry, but I call BS. The impact of hitting the ground alone is enough to jar and rattle you and get your gun out of proper firing position, I highly doubt that you can hit the ground and instantly hit targets 100 feet away like you claim you can.

You must be some sort of super player though. You have no problems hitting people coming around the corner and insta-proning? Well, that's funny, seems almost everyone else has complained about it at one point or another. Guess those real life skills of yours have translated over to BF2?

And 10 feet is an exaggeration. The distance is rarely 10 feet. At 10 feet, instaproning and firing ISN'T an issue, as it's usually just whoever fires first wins. When you increase that distance to say, 20 meters however, it does become an issue. Unless you're Determined, of course, and can hit targets 300 meters away with one hand on a grenade and the other on a trigger, jumping over hurdles and carrying a wounded comrade on your back.

300 meters? When did I say 300 meters? I never want to see a paintball gun used in a conversation regarding anything involving accuracy. Success in competition paintball has little to do with accuracy and more to do with volume of fire. If not for my neighbors being upset for me putting rounds through their sliding glass door I would do it. Hell I could take you and have you do it.

Again, it is not something that anyone would do in real life. I am very against limiting player movement. Nothing worse than feeling like a robot. I'm still pissed that I have to jump up on a ledge that is 4 inches off the ground and then lose all my sprint.

300 meters was a joke, if you couldn't tell with the one hand on a grenade, reference...

And when did I mention anything about accuracy with paintball? Nor did I mention anything about success. The point I was making was that with a significantly lighter, and less cumbersome weapon (paintball gun), and no equipment to speak of except for a helmet, I was still not able to even shoot the gun after I hit the dirt hard, let alone aim it at anything. There's NO way I could ever imagine hitting something 50 meters away with an M16 + equipment immediately after hitting the dirt, and you're lying if you say you can. But with a delay, you could expect to. The delay would simulate the time it would take to get yourself ready to shoot your gun effectively. We're not suggesting limiting prone or anything that would make you "feel like a robot", and I'm not sure how not being able to shoot immediately after DIVING INTO THE GROUND would make you feel like a "robot". Last time I checked, sprinting and diving directly onto concrete or rocks isn't the most pleasant experience.

100 feet is a very short distance. A human sized target is quite large. If you can't hit it firing one handed while doing a handstand I'd be surprised.

The complaint is I that these engagements happen at much shorter distances....making the human sized target larger. Not sure why this is so hard to fathom. I mean even an average player can shoot targets at medium distances without having to use his sights.

100 feet is not really that short. Look at the two men standing in the middle of the field.



100 feet is approximately the 5 yard line to the other 5 yard line. Now put those two men at the opposing 5 yard lines. Considering that you have a pack of gear on, plus a full length rifle, I have NO idea how the hell you keep saying that 100 feet is this ultra short distance that you can hit the second you hit the floor. You're lying. You're blatantly making things up. There's NO way you can duplicate what happens in PRMM currently, and every time you say you can, you're full of that bad word I can't say here.

But putting the distances aside, the issue is that you can make the transformation of (1)sprinting > (2)hitting the deck > (3)hitting a target near instantly, no matter the distance. This is not realistic, not the shooting accurately, not the being able to shoot almost instantly. No part of it is realistic. If you can find me a video that shows someone running full speed with equipment and hitting the deck while simultaneously bringing their sights up and hitting a target at 100 feet, I'll take back everything I've said. Hell, if you can show someone with NO equipment, and ANY gun, let alone an assault rifle, hitting the deck and hitting a target at 100 feet, I'll back down.

Sorry but you're wrong on this.

my *** you could hit the floor and hit a guy running from 100m away time and time again.
i want you, right now to go to the nearest airport or highway or any other close rough concrete surface with a full load of stuff on, gun in hand, up to your eye, looking through the iron sites and run at full speed for 50m, then dive to the ground, shoot a guy in the face 3 times from 100m, get up, and repeat the process 10 times in a row.
THEN go 100m away from a target with all the stuff on and what not and just take a kneel and shoot a guy in the face 3 times, run and repeat 10 times. then come back on here and tell me what the verdict is. actually before you come on here go to webmd.com and tell me what i should do if i get for "scope eye" and road rash and maby a broken bone or 2.

Everyone is missing the point entirely.

You CANNOT run at an enemy, fall to prone with gun sideways, and shoot bullets out the side of your gun. That is impossible. Military training or not.

You CANNOT roll, gun aiming in air, and kill an enemy infront of you. That is impossible. Military training or not.

The fix is simple. Match the 3rd person timing from standing to prone and match that timing with the inability to fire in first.

Concrete? Diving head first onto elbows with weight of weapon in hands (saw)? I smell broken elbows, severe pain, loss of concentration possibly conciousness if there is a rock there. Lets do some data analysis.

bodyweight 220lbs
velocity - running speed + diving speed 15mph (est) at point of contact
Surface area of elbow contact with floor 1.4inches
weight of rifle (no idea you guys will know)
Concrete surface tension
Brain orientation - time taken to readjust your cognitive perspective to this new position.

Now imagine the force exerted on the elbows at point of landing?
Maybe every soldier is a kung fu master with elbows of steel?

but wait, a new value.
The stomach and chest take some of that force, although a backpack will likely add what? 40lbs? so a probability factor of knocking air from the lungs should be considered too.

Isn't part of accuracy training centered around breathing? inhale>exhale> fire>inhale.

My opinion? You couldn't shoot shit under your nose while hitting the concrete, I would say accuracy/breathing would be severely affected for around 3-5 seconds (max distance limit 10-15feet), probably getting back to around 90% accuracy ability at that point. Would depend on how far and fast you had been running and how fit you are.

Going prone from a crouch/walk position .. ok maybe you would be ready to fire in 1-2 seconds.

Sorry I'm not a soldier with a rifle so I can't prove it. But then I didn't need to see how big the hole in the titanic was to know it was big enough to sink it.

What the important point really is, is that the hitbox is distorted when you prone dive, this could be considered glitching.

I think insta proning should be corrected by having a delay before you can fire. Whether this makes it more realistic or not, I don't care. I care about game play. I believe this mod desires for people to think before they act more than vBF 2. Insta proning contradicts that by allowing you to be a smaller in .5 seconds.

This should be a thought process more than a reaction process. I would also like if they slowed down the turning of players and reduced the jumping. The mod has made some things more realistic/tactical, but have kept some things arcadey and the 2 extremes don't seem to work well. If it's a matter of time, then I understand. If not, I think it will affect game play negatively.

Sandy_Beret wrote:one second is unrealistic

highly-trained individuals can do incredible things

I think what people are trying to say is if you are 10 feet away from someone, the last thing you want to do is dive to the ground and go prone. If someone did that in real life there head and back would be full of led or they would get a crushing blow to their helmet/head from the but stock of the rifle.... yes getting hit with a rifle while wearing a helmet would really dissorient or knock you out. Try wearing a helmet and then have someone hit you with a baseball bat and see how you feel.

To really annoy the culprits, why not just make it that if you sprint into a prone, you get the infamous LSD inspired blood-loss-like effect for a second or two, to simulate the disorientation (or broken elbows as mentioned earlier.) The trick would of course be to walk normally into a prone or crouch into a prone. I haven't tried the theory, but I don't think it would be very annoying to do this and would stop people from sprinting unrealistically into a prone.

hold the phones!
I just went into my room and got a rifle and tried to dive to the ground and keep something in my sites. (i dont need any smart *** remarks about me doing this on account of a video game, or me doing it at all as i already feel like a dumb *** for trying it)

to start off...
I could barely bring myself to do it as it is like falling on your face without being able to catch yourself, i couldnt bring the sites to my eye and go down at the same time, and i wasnt even running, hell i was just kinda walking...on carpet. and after i finally did it, besides it being the worst idea i have had in along time because it hurt like fuck and it was just stupid. i found out...

IT IS ****IMPOSABLE******

and physics is the reason, but i dont feel like explaining that aspect of it aswell so i will put it into a easier to understand way.

lets say some guy gives it a whirl in combat...
now, lets say this guy has no backpack on, has invincible arms, has lungs of steel that wont leave him gasping, and has the balls to do it in the first place.
he still wont be able to hit a damn thing!!

if he was able to get around all those other complications, there would still have the fact that the barrel of the gun is a good 1-10 inches off the ground when his elbows and the rest of him is on the ground. while the ground has stopped him and his arms from moving down any more the momentum keeps the barrel of the gun going down untill it hits the ground or is very close to hitting the ground. most guns are barrel heavy or neutrally balanced around the trigger finger. so you always have at least 50% of the weight out in front of you. there is no way you will be able to keep the very tip of that rifle dead on target without it dropping a little bit when you hit the floor.
even with your left hand (as i pull the trigger with my right hand) holding the barrel shroud (handle around the barrel) the barrel is going to move all around. infact the hand that is on the barrel shroud is going to make it even worse because the tip wont go straight down, it will go down and off to the right abit sense your hand will give a little bit from all the weight. bottom line...it doesnt work and whoever says it does obviously has never tried it.

damnit i have to come clean...i was never able to bring myself to run and just fall to the ground with a gun in my hand, not even on carpet, i had to do it on my bed and it still didnt work. BUT i did try going down from my knees instead of standing up and there is no way in hell you would be able to hit a damn thing. it made such a loud thump as my elbows hit the floor, it was ridiculous. not to mention it hurt the hell out of them. as you hit the ground the barrel moves all over, your eyes dont stay in line with the sites, your elbows get hurt, you get the wind knocked out of you, and your eyes close, then its hard as piss to get back up. and thats without a backpack and ammo, and grenades, and a huge *** gun, and an armor vest, and it was only done from a kneel not a full stand, and there was so running, and it was on carpet not concrete and dirt, and i had a sweatshirt on, and no helmet or anything ells.

its just not doable. simple as that.

by the way, if anybody would like to publish this into a book or some other huge gathering of words such as a 12 month magazine subscription give me a PM (j/k).