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This whole argument is a moot point. There are liberties taken to realism because of the small scale that you are fighting in PR. Hey if you wanna make everything real then the Cobra could just hover over they US main and kill targets at the Insurgants main. Attack helicopters can employ their weapons at great range. Something that is not possible in the game because of scale. Well this is also something you will have to accept because of scale.

the speed of the chooper its like real life , and the maps arent in real life scale .

I always think that's nuts when you see the impacts, then hear the impacts, and finally hear that hum that gives you shivers.

And yes whoever said it, it does sound like the tripods from War of the Worlds.

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:the speed of the chooper its like real life , and the maps arent in real life scale .

Which I think is fine. The only chopper that really is exagerrated is the acceleration of the black hawk.

So... It's fine to have real life speed choppers, real life scale maps but not real life anti air? That sounds... retarded, if not hypocrital.

If it's realistic not to have tones then implement that. But also add more flares and the possibility to release a shitload of them at a time.

That way the only dead pilot would be a careless one

I think there should be no lock on warnings, so choppers and jets need to stay in groups. And vehicles need to stay close to infantry for protection.

DirtyHarry88 wrote:And yes whoever said it, it does sound like the tripods from War of the Worlds.

Ok, challenge to the DEV's, the A-10 already sounds pretty realistic, but next patch we need to hear that sound across the battlefield when ever an A-10 strafes.

'[R-PUB wrote:Demio']So... It's fine to have real life speed choppers, real life scale maps but not real life anti air? That sounds... retarded, if not hypocrital.

If it's realistic not to have tones then implement that. But also add more flares and the possibility to release a shitload of them at a time.

That way the only dead pilot would be a careless one

I'm not the guy who gave them realistic speed. No need to tell me its retarded. I will say its not the speed at which they can travel, but the rate at which they reach that speed that is the issue.

I never said that the realistic speed was retarded but your argument is.

'[R-PUB wrote:Demio']I never said that the realistic speed was retarded but your argument is.

You just said it was retarded. Whether your referring to my argument or what is in game is one in the same. In turn your telling the devs its retarded. Whats wrong with my argument? Don't confuse balance with reality. Could it be tweaked, yes. Remove lock on would be silly. I've said this whole time you can't but do so much involving reality because of the scale you are fighting at. If you think that is retarded then your are playing the wrong game.

#1 - This mod is about Realism not Balance
#2 - We are getting some 4km2 maps which will be much more in scale, and even then the current 2km2 are already pretty good.
#3 - It's both unrealistic and stupid looking to see A-10s doing bombing runs at 20km/hour (slow enough to be hit by RPGs).
#4 - It's also stupid to see helos hovering in the middle of the enemy. You should use the helo to attack from range (you can use it from 500m or so which is far away enough not to get locked on).
#5 - You say it's fine and dandy to have fast choppers and huge maps, but having realistic AA? NO WAY!!!!
#6 - Removing lock on would keep the pilots in check, forcing A-10s to do FAST bombing runs while dropping flares (realistic), and chopper pilots to attack from far (realistic).

What was your argument again? Oh yea: OH NOES!!! MY HELO UBERNESS WILL BE NERFED!!!!

P.S.: I don't know if you even read my other post but I also advocate for realistic counter-measure systems.

The_motivator wrote:one- no one would fly... why risk it?

HUmm maybe you have a point? you know what I mean?

'[R-PUB wrote:Demio']#6 - Removing lock on would keep the pilots in check, forcing A-10s to do FAST bombing runs while dropping flares (realistic), and chopper pilots to attack from far (realistic).

What was your argument again? Oh yea: OH NOES!!! MY HELO UBERNESS WILL BE NERFED!!!!

Wow one of the best idea and comments about AA yet!!!

'[R-PUB wrote:Demio']#1 - This mod is about Realism not Balance
#2 - We are getting some 4km2 maps which will be much more in scale, and even then the current 2km2 are already pretty good.
#3 - It's both unrealistic and stupid looking to see A-10s doing bombing runs at 20km/hour (slow enough to be hit by RPGs).
#4 - It's also stupid to see helos hovering in the middle of the enemy. You should use the helo to attack from range (you can use it from 500m or so which is far away enough not to get locked on).
#5 - You say it's fine and dandy to have fast choppers and huge maps, but having realistic AA? NO WAY!!!!
#6 - Removing lock on would keep the pilots in check, forcing A-10s to do FAST bombing runs while dropping flares (realistic), and chopper pilots to attack from far (realistic).

What was your argument again? Oh yea: OH NOES!!! MY HELO UBERNESS WILL BE NERFED!!!!

P.S.: I don't know if you even read my other post but I also advocate for realistic counter-measure systems.

i love this user

'[R-PUB wrote:Demio']#1 - This mod is about Realism not Balance
#2 - We are getting some 4km2 maps which will be much more in scale, and even then the current 2km2 are already pretty good.
#3 - It's both unrealistic and stupid looking to see A-10s doing bombing runs at 20km/hour (slow enough to be hit by RPGs).
#4 - It's also stupid to see helos hovering in the middle of the enemy. You should use the helo to attack from range (you can use it from 500m or so which is far away enough not to get locked on).
#5 - You say it's fine and dandy to have fast choppers and huge maps, but having realistic AA? NO WAY!!!!
#6 - Removing lock on would keep the pilots in check, forcing A-10s to do FAST bombing runs while dropping flares (realistic), and chopper pilots to attack from far (realistic).

What was your argument again? Oh yea: OH NOES!!! MY HELO UBERNESS WILL BE NERFED!!!!

P.S.: I don't know if you even read my other post but I also advocate for realistic counter-measure systems.

I have no idea why you post. You just killed yourself with your own first point. If the game was about realism US would pwn these other factions hands down. There is no MEC. So please tone down your REALISM sword for a moment. PR is about realistic, fun, balanced gameplay. At times realism has to take a back seat to balance and fun. Otherwise PR would be a simulation and nobody would play it.

As I've stated to another asshat about Al Basrah, I've been insurgant 85% of the time, if not more, when I've played that map. So my argument has nothing to do with MY chopper ownage. Now that I think about it its more like 97% of the time I've been insurgant.

If you slow the choppers near UFO acceleration down, you will rarely see them reach top speed. Since the maps we play on are but only so big.

Make AA guns do more damage to jets.

Tweak the SA7 a bit more.

Maybe remove an A10 in place of a LB

Give the insurgants another tank or APC or two?

Thats really all that needs to be done for Al Basrah. Despite your gripes US still never usually makes it past the VCP flags. Hell, you could give the US 10 Cobras and they would still have a good chance of losing.

Cravixon wrote:Live Leak.

Also, there are many cases where SA-7s have downed aircraft. American and Israeli especially (sharing common aircraft).

Edit: Nvm, covered.

Little bit of national pride here, but when was an Israeli aircraft downed by an SA-7? I'm not disputing your claim, I just want to see how/why/when...

Determined wrote:I have no idea why you post. You just killed yourself with your own first point. If the game was about realism US would pwn these other factions hands down. There is no MEC. So please tone down your REALISM sword for a moment. PR is about realistic, fun, balanced gameplay. At times realism has to take a back seat to balance and fun. Otherwise PR would be a simulation and nobody would play it.

As I've stated to another asshat about Al Basrah, I've been insurgant 85% of the time, if not more, when I've played that map. So my argument has nothing to do with MY chopper ownage. Now that I think about it its more like 97% of the time I've been insurgant.

If you slow the choppers near UFO acceleration down, you will rarely see them reach top speed. Since the maps we play on are but only so big.

Make AA guns do more damage to jets.

Tweak the SA7 a bit more.

Maybe remove an A10 in place of a LB

Give the insurgants another tank or APC or two?

Thats really all that needs to be done for Al Basrah. Despite your gripes US still never usually makes it past the VCP flags. Hell, you could give the US 10 Cobras and they would still have a good chance of losing.

Of course there is balance in the mod, but not "artificial" balance.

And I don't have any gripes, if no tones on the SA-7 is more realistic then I want it in

Also I want flares to be realistic (which would balance it out in the end for good pilots).

But I guess you just love vanilla-like air systems.

Don't worry, they WILL become realistic, it's just a matter of time to rework the whole air system, so this argument is kinda pointless. No tone will probably be implemented if realistic counter-measures are implemented, and since we're reworking the jets for our next versions then it's probably going to be implemented.

End of story.

You're right it's not realistic but there's a line that must be drawn between balance and realism. It would not be balanced if the lock warnings were removed, pilots would be downed 24/7 and no one would bother using them. Because this is a multiplayer game with human players versus human players it needs to be balanced.

FREEGUNNER wrote:You're right it's not realistic but there's a line that must be drawn between balance and realism. It would not be balanced if the lock warnings were removed, pilots would be downed 24/7 and no one would bother using them. Because this is a multiplayer game with human players versus human players it needs to be balanced.

Good pilots wouldn't be downed 24/7.

Good pilots would use helis from distance and do fast A-10 bombing runs while dropping flares to avoid lock on.

Is that a concept too hard to understand?

FREEGUNNER wrote: pilots would be downed 24/7 and no one would bother using them.

The SA7 (and to a lesser extent the Stinger) have a very limited engagement envolope, both IRL and in the game. You need to fire while in a tight cone behind the aircraft (the SA7 and the American's version the Redeye were both called revenge weapons, because the only time you can reliably use them is after you've been strafed). There is an extremely small window for head on engagements (like tracers are coming right at you small). If the jets flew fast, even w/o working flares they would evade most of the missles.

Even when they are hit, you can't take down a healthy A-10 with one SA7, its a small missle. I've actually seen a pair of USMC F/A-18s that each took an SA7 right up the tail pipe (they didn't realize the Iraqi's they were strafing were Republican Guard, dumb Jarheads) and were able to return to base. The F/A-18 is made of paper mache compaired to the A-10.