Growing trend in PR Servers since .05

Fenix16 · Post by **Fenix16** » 2007-03-13 06:46

I personally despise short spawn servers. It takes away so much from what PR is and how it functions. What I really have to question though, is how have you guys allowed some of them to become ABR?

Post by **M.J.Patterson** » 2007-03-13 07:02

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']Yeah it's outta hand. It's their server .. I get it .. but it's OUR mod.

I am pretty sure we will figure out a way to do something about this. I'd rather lose players and servers than have the mod run with 10s spawn times and the sort of player that attracts.

In the old days you couldn't get a game going because there were so few good players. Now you can't get a decent game going because there are so few good servers.

Would it be possible to only distribute the server files to the PROS servers? I don't know how easy it is to manipulate server files but that "might" do some good. Have it privately available to all the PROS admins somehow and then sign some agreement.. etc etc.

??: I don't know.. just an idea.

Don't all ABR servers have to be PROS?

Post by **eggman** » 2007-03-13 07:08

I have to say we didn't anticipate so many server admins butchering up the mod heh. Having 1 or 2 servers that deviate... that's totally cool imo .. different strokes for different folks... but to see the majority of the servers with some sort of odd and awful configuration hack is not acceptable to us.

Things like spawn timers and attrition spawning .. like it or not .. are part of the design of the mod. How can the Insurgents be balanced when their advantage is varying from server to server? How are we supposed to take feedback from players on vehicle dynamics when server admins are having tanks respawn in 2 minutes??

And as for ABR .. well WE control the criterion for ABR ranked servers, so we'll probably be disabling some servers from ABR if they go outside of acceptable configuration parameters.

I think we'll probably have a "recruit" setting and a PROS setting... something like that... but right now the mod is being hacked up so badly by server admins that I can't even recognise it and it attracts the wrong sort of player. There will be other mods / games out there for folks to play if they don't like what we do with restricting PR configuration changes.

Post by **IronTaxi** » 2007-03-13 07:37

Yeah for eggman..our champion with the big *** sniper rifle.. yeah its just really really demoralizing for us guys putting in at least 20 in some case 40+ hours a week modding (not playing at all)

Post by **M.J.Patterson** » 2007-03-13 07:47

Well.. this is a little tangent but in regards to devs not playing...

Would two of the Devs be interested in commanding the teams in the Battlefield Cooperative: War Games? We're a little tight on space so I can't confirm that we would actually be able to make it happen at this stage... we're still confirming the last few attendees but I figured I should run it by you guys anyway...

War Games Link

RajunCajun wrote:We need a commadner too.
Who will be the Cooperative commander?

M.J.Paterson wrote:Phew.. you said it brother.. I have no clue. I know I've played with some excellent commanders and some really bull-headed commanders. We could pull this from electing a volunteer from a clan, electing a knowledgeable non-clan player, or the most intriguing idea.. one of the DEVS!

/end tangent

Post by **AfterDune** » 2007-03-13 07:50

By reducing the spawn/death times, we're playing vanilla with PR weaponry, that's just not right. Be careful with what you do out there. If spawn time is only like 5 seconds, who cares if you die 50 times? In 'normal' PR, you will and must think twice before running down the battlegrounds, storming the enemy... blindfolded!

[PTG]Z.user · Post by **[PTG]Z.user** » 2007-03-13 08:02

These reduced spawn time servers are a pain in the arse to be honest. I was on Myxo last night (didnt know about the spawn time thingy) with my fellow PR buddy Hoot and it was a noob fest..bunny hopping teamkilling waste of time.
All you see is PrivateNoob [Teamkilled] PR lover
PrivateNoob "oops sorry i didnt know you were on my team"
PR lover "No probs just be more careful and spot things"
PrivateNoob "where do i get the sniper kit"
.....
PrivateNoob [Teamkilled] Pr lover
"oops again my bad"

Post by **eggman** » 2007-03-13 08:03

'[PTG wrote:Z.user']These reduced spawn time servers are a pain in the arse to be honest. I was on Myxo last night (didnt know about the spawn time thingy) with my fellow PR buddy Hoot and it was a noob fest..bunny hopping teamkilling waste of time.
All you see is PrivateNoob [Teamkilled] PR lover
PrivateNoob "oops sorry i didnt know you were on my team"
PR lover "No probs just be more careful and spot things"
PrivateNoob "where do i get the sniper kit"
.....
PrivateNoob [Teamkilled] Pr lover
"oops again my bad"

lol .. yeah that's pretty much exactly how it goes.

Vaalealiha · Post by **Vaalealiha** » 2007-03-13 08:06

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']In the old days you couldn't get a game going because there were so few good players. Now you can't get a decent game going because there are so few good servers.

I'm gointo setup a server, when we get our brand new server running, some time next week.

Post by **AfterDune** » 2007-03-13 08:07

'[PTG wrote:Z.user']These reduced spawn time servers are a pain in the arse to be honest. I was on Myxo last night ...... PrivateNoob [Teamkilled] Pr lover
"oops again my bad"

Yes, as sad as it is... you're right

=CDU=Junkoe · Post by **=CDU=Junkoe** » 2007-03-13 09:55

I am sure there are people waitin to pounce on anything I say and that's fine.

I just would like to get my point across and why I setup our server that way.

First I would like to say that I find it very disturbing how bent outta shape you all are getting over this, sayin us server admins have no right to mod a mod.
Think about that for a second please.

While the devs have done a fantastic job of modding BF2 into an acceptable experience, they also did some things me an lot of my fellow clan members don't enjoy. We at =CDU= always enjoy a hardcore experience, we like things to be hard. That's why we always allow main base camping at anytime and things of that nature.

I started playing this mod back in 0.2 something and highly enjoyed the accurate weaponry, but I could never get my friends interested in the mod because they were playin other mods. Well after 0.4 a few of them came around and thats about the same time I generally lost interest in the mod. I understand the kit limiting system and it makes plenty of sense but I still don't generally enjoy it. Asides from that though there were quite a few of my clanmates playin PR at the time and there number one complaint was the wait time in between deaths.

Now you all can call us newbs or whatever you want but we just like to fight. We play for fun we do use tactics and what not but generally if somethin needs to be cleared there are plenty of us that will take one for the team and just rush it to see what happens so our teammates can deal with the problem. It's just how we play.

So it came down to the fact that we have an open server just sittin for BF2. We have always used it for new BF2 mods but most of those we all lose interest in after a short while because it's still just BF2 with new toys. So I decided to put up a PR server for 0.5 and I always noticed the realityconfig.py file and was much appreciative of it. Shortly after putting up the new server with only the edited config file it got regular traffic and all of us at =CDU= had a ball playin PR in this configuration.

Shortly thereafter I edited all the maps to make vehicles spawn faster. Some of you are absolutely right in saying it plays out like vanilla, because it kind of does. The only difference is that it has PR physics and damage, etc etc.
Most of us hate BF2 because of many reasons as I am sure you all are the same. Taking 30 shots to kill someone and things of this sort really killed the BF2 experience. With the PR mod you pay for your mistakes and a lot of times so does your team. We like that we just don't enjoy the spawn times that's it.

It was never my intention to start a whole new trend or give other admins the idea that a short spawn server was a good thing. I knew when I was putting it up that most of the die hard PR fans would hate the server and everything we stand for. That's fine because I didn't put up the server for them, there are plenty of servers out there like that. I put up a server for people like me an my clan that enjoy the hardcore weaponry that really puts a fire under your *** , and at the same time wants to keep the action fast paced and always constant.

I understand your arguments against it and if there is somehow a hardcoded limit on the spawn time then you won't see =CDU= playing PR and you all can rejoice an be happy. At the same time please understand that we love what the mod has done for BF2, we just don't enjoy slow paced games. We like to be in the thick of it at all times.

Also if I could do more server-side I would so at least you stopped me there for now. If I was able to, I would have completely change CP's and spawn points and also add plenty more vehicles that aren't already in a map. I gave up on that for now because I got other SSM stuff that I am working on.

The bottom line is this, if you don't want people playing the game differently from how you intend then don't give us the tools to do so.

I guess I was mistaken about the PR Devs. I always thought they stood by the idea of it's their server, they pay for it, they can enjoy it how they want.

Anyways that's just my reasons for setting up the server like I did, and take it however you want. I know me an my mates are in the minority here in how we like to play PR and if you don't want us around thats your prerogative.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2007-03-13 10:10

hey thanks for the honesty Junkoe, I dont agree with the gamestyle but I appreciate you posting your opinon and I respect it.

Main problem I see is that alot of the other servers have seen your success, and it made a trend unforunately

Yea its not your fault, hopefully there is a resolution that we can come to that will straighten things out and not screw you guys over.

Post by **IronTaxi** » 2007-03-13 10:19

again ive posted about your server before and we have the utmost respect fro what you guys want. you guys were straight up from the beginning..please dont consider this an attack against you guys but we may have no other choice but to take more control over how things are played...

anyway...before i say anything else maybe we ought to let eggman or some of the other leads have a kick at the can and maybe give us all a little perspective on this,,,

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2007-03-13 10:26

There is one server, 705 recon or something like that, where the spawn time is 10 seconds.
CDU may use tactics but short spawn and lots of vehicles leads to vanilla gameplay and vanilla players.
I've tried CDU several times and it's VANILLA with PR weapons and flags.
I completely agree with Junkoe in that if given the ability others will also adjust things to make it more like a standard arcade game.
I also see the snobby reaction from people like me about playing styles and players but I don't care.
Run and Gun is run and gun no matter what the flag order is or what weapons are available and I don't care for that style of play and there are plenty of fast twitch games out there.
I think the existence of fast spawn servers breeds twitchy run&gun types who then migrate over to regular servers and try to play that same way in real PR which lowers the quality of gameplay for the people on that server.

Red Halibut · Post by **Red Halibut** » 2007-03-13 10:48

If I'm honest I don't see what the problem is. Speaking personally I won't play on fast re-spawn servers, because that's not the kind of experience I want. Other people, on the other hand *may* want that experience.

I think DEVs posting here have the right idea, and that those calling for the spawn times and other features to be hard-coded should think very carefully about whether that's the right way to take. Think about it the next time you see a request for different-sized squads, or different voice channels, or a fix for insta-prone, none of which can be implemented in PR. Why? Because it was hard-coded into the BF2 engine.

DJJ-Terror · Post by **DJJ-Terror** » 2007-03-13 10:57

i can live with somewhat shorter spawn or limited max penalty time to eg. 10 sec

I know that lot of mine friends have give up on PR becouse of the long spawn time.

huleboeren · Post by **huleboeren** » 2007-03-13 11:04

I just stick to PROS server (*cough*iGi*cough*)
I like pistols only servers when I just want to fuck around and...not do anything

General_J0k3r · Post by **General_J0k3r** » 2007-03-13 11:05

i can live with the servers. don't play on them anyway. still, one should think about hardcoding the spawn times in order to keep vBF2 playing style low. or a compromise: hardcode the 30s respawn timer but give an option to eliminate the penalty for death.

edit: the guys that can't cope with the long spawntime mostly have a problem adapting to the mod. i've been playing vBF2 a long time (I have to admit it

) and come from other shooters like q3 OSP, UT, nexiuz and that kind of stuff where gameplay is completely different and it took me quite some time to adapt. i still got the problem that i'm not cautious enough

zeidmaan · Post by **zeidmaan** » 2007-03-13 11:11

The biggest problem is that when new players decide to try it they look at the server list and chances are they will pick one of the "vanillaish" servers because they are often full. And the new players might not know of these changes. So their first impression of the mod is "vanilla with small differences".
Now if they are in to reality on the battlefield they wont like it and they might leave. I had 2 mates tell me they wasted 1.6GB of download for nothing.
But if they are in to arcadish gameplay they might stay with the mod.

Growing trend in PR Servers since .05

High Points/ Fast Spawn servers