Concerning Artillery
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Hides-His-Eyes
- Posts: 484
- Joined: 2007-02-06 22:36
In PR any activity that doesn't require any real skill and contant action and that could be done automatically, IMO, should be.USAF-Marshall wrote:If you wanted to be realistic about it you would also need a FO and/or RTO with proper maps, and a protracter to call it in. Would be nice to have but would require too many moving parts which I doubt many people would fill to be effective in the "Realistic" sense.
Spotter "south 2 degrees" And it would be: (Their call sign) this is (Your call sign) adjust (right/left/down/up) #Meters + # Degree's if R or L.... little in depth. Plus Splash over / Flash / Fire for effect would be a little more than some people would be able to handle.
We're only working with 32vs32 here...
The third "never again" in a hundred years
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Teek
- Posts: 3162
- Joined: 2006-12-23 02:45
From FAS.orgwhile this is new technology, I think it's more likely for the marines to use traditional technology as this is fairly new.
I propose they use the M-198, you'll more likely then not have seen multiple clips of it firing rounds in Iraq on the nightly news
Marine Corps Inventory: 541
Background: The first 10 M198 Howitzers were delivered to the 10th Marine Regiment in January 1982. Even as work efforts toward acquiring a light weight 155mm Towed Howitzer continue, progress and improvements continue in support of the existing M198 155mm Medium Towed Howitzer. A look at past, present, and future logistics support in the field of artillery reveals the Product Improvement Program (PIP), the MPS Fleet Rotation Program, and the fielding of the RE 198 Recoil Exerciser.
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DarkTalon
- Posts: 711
- Joined: 2007-03-22 00:17
sorry to bump this thread but i just had a new idea concerning loading.
this way an artillery piece has one position and an designated loader. the position in the artillery piece aims and fires. about 20m away from the artillery piece is a cache that will reload any player (like the insurgent cache) the loader must get the limited kit "Artilleryman" or "base personnel" what this kit has is.
he will get quite a bit of points for the actual loading.
back to his job. he has to go to the cache (only place where artillery shells can be loaded) walk back to the piece and throw the shell on the ground close to the piece.
Now the shell itself is universal even if we have different types of rounds (smoke, High explosive etc.) this one will provide one bullet in the artillery piece.
so it is simply a different skin of the ammo bag that reloads a howitzer.
this model can also be used for the IED which will save the modelers some time.
what this element does is it removes the ability for someone to whore artillery, because if he keeps it to himself he'll have to reload it himself, giving others a chance to use it. this is what i like most about this system, the fact you can place an embargo on bad players
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Overview:
what i see is a three man squad; a spotter, and two artillerymen. everyone will be playing a critical role in this system, and it forces teamwork without the spotter, you cannot correct your fire much less know where you're shooting, without the loader the piece has no active defense or even ammo, and without the man on the piece you don't even have artillery. then if we go out a level we have more communication instead of one really good "TEAMWORK" squad you have to work with people outside of you're squad, if you want any fire support. and then we go out one more level we have the commander, the devs are making this job more appealing as we speak. if we add artillery he will have the task of bridging the gap between squads. he has to coordinate everything or nothing will get done.
what this addition would do is add a whole new support structure to PR, and if played right squads will receive virtually unlimited support. this more than anything else rewards teamplay.
this way an artillery piece has one position and an designated loader. the position in the artillery piece aims and fires. about 20m away from the artillery piece is a cache that will reload any player (like the insurgent cache) the loader must get the limited kit "Artilleryman" or "base personnel" what this kit has is.
- the factions SMG
- wrench
- Binocs
- Artillery Shell
- smoke grenade
he will get quite a bit of points for the actual loading.
back to his job. he has to go to the cache (only place where artillery shells can be loaded) walk back to the piece and throw the shell on the ground close to the piece.
Now the shell itself is universal even if we have different types of rounds (smoke, High explosive etc.) this one will provide one bullet in the artillery piece.
so it is simply a different skin of the ammo bag that reloads a howitzer.
this model can also be used for the IED which will save the modelers some time.
what this element does is it removes the ability for someone to whore artillery, because if he keeps it to himself he'll have to reload it himself, giving others a chance to use it. this is what i like most about this system, the fact you can place an embargo on bad players
.Overview:
what i see is a three man squad; a spotter, and two artillerymen. everyone will be playing a critical role in this system, and it forces teamwork without the spotter, you cannot correct your fire much less know where you're shooting, without the loader the piece has no active defense or even ammo, and without the man on the piece you don't even have artillery. then if we go out a level we have more communication instead of one really good "TEAMWORK" squad you have to work with people outside of you're squad, if you want any fire support. and then we go out one more level we have the commander, the devs are making this job more appealing as we speak. if we add artillery he will have the task of bridging the gap between squads. he has to coordinate everything or nothing will get done.
what this addition would do is add a whole new support structure to PR, and if played right squads will receive virtually unlimited support. this more than anything else rewards teamplay.
Last edited by DarkTalon on 2007-04-23 04:51, edited 1 time in total.
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CAS_117
- Posts: 1600
- Joined: 2007-03-26 18:01
Um a little off/on topic, but can we please beef up the artillery? I don't like seeing a tank just sit through an artillery strike like he's all that. APC's are even worse. Basically, if the tank isn't moving, he should be fair game. Artillery has always been a problem for slow moving armored columns. Project reality anyone? For that matter, since when does the commander tell the infantry where to call artillery? Why not just call it himself if he knows where it is? Perhaps its time for a permanent solution to this little conundrum.
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daranz
- Posts: 1622
- Joined: 2007-04-16 10:53
Pixel aiming, anyone?
Any sort of player operated artillery is going to encourage people to find specific spots to fire at to hit specific targets on the map, without needing a spotter (and that's really difficult to fix without putting too many artificial restrictions in place that just feel weird).
Also, I was wondering - would the kind of howitzers we see in BF be found on the battlefield, employed in the way they are employed in BF2/PR? Surely, it'd make more sense to only use self-propelled artillery, considering that modern armies are likely to have counter battery radars. I know that the assets (meaning, models, etc) aren't in place, but I always found the way arty was employed in BF2 to be rather weird.
Having said that, I wouldn't mind having mortar teams.
Any sort of player operated artillery is going to encourage people to find specific spots to fire at to hit specific targets on the map, without needing a spotter (and that's really difficult to fix without putting too many artificial restrictions in place that just feel weird).
Also, I was wondering - would the kind of howitzers we see in BF be found on the battlefield, employed in the way they are employed in BF2/PR? Surely, it'd make more sense to only use self-propelled artillery, considering that modern armies are likely to have counter battery radars. I know that the assets (meaning, models, etc) aren't in place, but I always found the way arty was employed in BF2 to be rather weird.
Having said that, I wouldn't mind having mortar teams.
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Long Bow
- Posts: 1100
- Joined: 2007-03-21 14:41
I know that in Forgotten hope there was pixel aiming happening. I played in a tournament and our squad would e-mail screen shots to the arty crews with the exact pre-determined locations for each target. That was good teamwork for sure but cheap. I like the idea of the ammo bag shell for the loader if it could work.
If the mortars are brought in game and are mobile then I would be happy with the current arty system.
Cheers,
but cheap. I like the idea of the ammo bag shell for the loader if it could work.If the mortars are brought in game and are mobile then I would be happy with the current arty system.
Cheers,
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DarkTalon
- Posts: 711
- Joined: 2007-03-22 00:17
The pixel aiming is a really good point, I think we could get around this by changing the accuracy a little and implement a "cone effect" heres a crude little paint sketch i did of the concept.
as you can see it provides a bit of a spread. this can also be useful because you could hold the howitzer at one angle and fire multiple rounds creating somewhat of a "shotgun effect".
as you can see it provides a bit of a spread. this can also be useful because you could hold the howitzer at one angle and fire multiple rounds creating somewhat of a "shotgun effect".
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daranz
- Posts: 1622
- Joined: 2007-04-16 10:53
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bunny
- Posts: 134
- Joined: 2006-12-21 19:19
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DarkTalon
- Posts: 711
- Joined: 2007-03-22 00:17
i'd say if we added the loading system we would have at least 15-20 seconds between shots, sure it's a little faster than in real life, but i don't think making you wait 50 seconds between shots would improve gameplay any more.
so with the 15-20 seconds between shots, the noise of the projectile and the likelihood that the gunner is focusing on one place, the opposition could easily avoid a barrage with proper communication, which is what the devs want, communication, teamwork and gameplay (and realism, can't forget that one).
a barrage wouldn't be able to spawn camp very well with all the warning signs, however if used in a firefight with coordination between the spotter, ground troops, and commander it can pin an enemy squad down pretty damn well, of course this is assuming the allied uses teamwork and communication.
so with the 15-20 seconds between shots, the noise of the projectile and the likelihood that the gunner is focusing on one place, the opposition could easily avoid a barrage with proper communication, which is what the devs want, communication, teamwork and gameplay (and realism, can't forget that one).
a barrage wouldn't be able to spawn camp very well with all the warning signs, however if used in a firefight with coordination between the spotter, ground troops, and commander it can pin an enemy squad down pretty damn well, of course this is assuming the allied uses teamwork and communication.
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A-10Warthog
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: 2007-01-03 01:28
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Outlawz7
- Retired PR Developer
- Posts: 17261
- Joined: 2007-02-17 14:59
Yeah, and would be nice, if this wouldnt require any special kits (ok, maybe the regular Mechanic kit), so 2-3 guys would jump on, load the cannons and fire them, then hop out and go back to battle, if needed.
Maybe one crew could fire 5 rounds, before the artillery had to cool down and reload, if you had more guys on the rest of the cannons, greater the effect would be...but that would put 6-9 guys MIA, so if you could vaporize an enemy position, it would be worth it..
Maybe one crew could fire 5 rounds, before the artillery had to cool down and reload, if you had more guys on the rest of the cannons, greater the effect would be...but that would put 6-9 guys MIA, so if you could vaporize an enemy position, it would be worth it..
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Clypp
- Posts: 2148
- Joined: 2006-07-17 18:36
Can we hire bots to man the arty in some kind of co-op mode?
I see you people think that you will help out the team doing the arty but I really doubt it will happen. Will you sit in front of your computer for hours just hitting the reload button and clicking? Maybe once and then after that we get no arty.
Compromise time.
Artillery should need "service" every 4 shots or so. An engineer drives over and wrenches it a few times. This will keep everyone from waiting time while keeping arty from being fully automated.
I see you people think that you will help out the team doing the arty but I really doubt it will happen. Will you sit in front of your computer for hours just hitting the reload button and clicking? Maybe once and then after that we get no arty.
Compromise time.
Artillery should need "service" every 4 shots or so. An engineer drives over and wrenches it a few times. This will keep everyone from waiting time while keeping arty from being fully automated.