Please don't punish your APC spawnpoint.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-05-19 21:06

It will be, since the USMC is getting replaced with GB...and Harrier is still WIP

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-05-19 21:11

bosco wrote:The problem is that too many people think that the APCs are assault vehicles that have to race from flag to flag...
WRONG!

.

thats because thre isnt any IFV in PR yet , the more close thing to that is the APC (20 mm cannon , zoom , splash , cover ,etc).

maybe if the cannon was replaced by a mg (i know that there a re version of the lav with only a gun ) there will be used like an APC and not like a IFV

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-05-19 21:39

I can understand punishing the A10, but have some mercy on the Cobra. It's often a bumpy ride, and the greyness and long distance does not help with the identification, especially if your pilot is smart enough to stay out of RPG range.

{GD}Ghost · Post by **{GD}Ghost** » 2007-05-19 21:52

dunehunter wrote:I can understand punishing the A10, but have some mercy on the Cobra. It's often a bumpy ride, and the greyness and long distance does not help with the identification, especially if your pilot is smart enough to stay out of RPG range.

This is where more teamwork/communication is necessary. If you've got friendlies running around any and everywhere and are among unfriendlies, then THERE WILL BE tks, intentional or not. On the other hand, pilot/gunner need to be in communication with ground troops to know where and where not to shoot.

The problem is that despite the realistic mechanics that are being lavished upon this mod, the most important realism factor (which can only be added by those who play the game) is teamwork and communication.

Once again, lets look at how this particular dilema is handled IRL. Barring situations where someone seriously f's up, a Cobra is not going to be doing much hunting in an area where friendlies and baddies are fighting so closely intermingled. Ground troops are in contact with air troops to relay locations of targets in relationship to friendlies. Also ground troops are not just running around willy nilly in such an unorganized mess as they do on PR servers to the point that no one knows where anyone is or is supposed to be.

Unfortunately, the tactical sense factor cannot be coded into the game. This is something the players must bring to the server with them.....and unless you have a closed server with disciplined, like minded players, you're not going to see this......ever.

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2007-05-19 22:11

and unless you have a closed server with disciplined, like minded players, you're not going to see this......ever
Not true.
Last night on Al Basrah, I forget the server, we had a commander directing airstrikes.
JuniperM40 is famous for directing airstrikes.
It can and does happen but not often enough.

eddie · Post by **eddie** » 2007-05-19 22:47

I'll punish if they have no gunner....... it's not hard to turn the turret around and tell the driver that there are people behind.

daranz · Post by **daranz** » 2007-05-19 22:49

Sigh. Seriously, am I the only person who does NOT punish for incompetence, but only for purposeful hostile action?

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2007-05-19 22:55

I regard incompetence as hostile action when you are flying.
A bobbled nade or a reflex shot as you round a corner is understandable but not checking your mini map before you fire 200 rounds into the facility from a Cobra is not.

Robbeh · Post by **Robbeh** » 2007-05-19 23:02

daranz wrote:Sigh. Seriously, am I the only person who does NOT punish for incompetence, but only for purposeful hostile action?

nope, i dont really punish at all unless im having a bad day..
too be honest i dont see the point as its only a game and the points system in pr means that punishing has little effect on the scores anyway

{GD}Ghost · Post by **{GD}Ghost** » 2007-05-20 06:50

ArmedDrunk&Angry wrote:and unless you have a closed server with disciplined, like minded players, you're not going to see this......ever
Not true.
Last night on Al Basrah, I forget the server, we had a commander directing airstrikes.
JuniperM40 is famous for directing airstrikes.
It can and does happen but not often enough.

You need more than just a competent commander and a couple of decent pilots to have a good team. Although I have seen some good squads on a few servers I've played on.

l|Bubba|l · Post by **l|Bubba|l** » 2007-05-20 09:29

eddie wrote:I'll punish if they have no gunner....... it's not hard to turn the turret around and tell the driver that there are people behind.

In a situation of incoming RPGs you have no time to ask. You must akt.
And when you stand behind an APC right after it's got a hit by an RPG it's your fault.

Or would it be better when the APC stay there and all people that stand arround the APC gets blown up by the explosion of the APC?

Ecko · Post by **Ecko** » 2007-05-20 12:25

bosco wrote:The problem is that too many people think that the APCs are assault vehicles that have to race from flag to flag...
WRONG!

When I use the APC, I do both driver's and gunner's job and set it up in a good position with overview, providing a spawnpoint for the team.
That often gets comments like "oMG dont camp with teh apc!!!111", but I don't care, as long as the team wins.

I personally hate seeing that, It's so easy to Jihad an APC without a dedicated Gunner. Due to the wait time before you can start to fire.

daranz · Post by **daranz** » 2007-05-20 13:09

Ecko wrote:I personally hate seeing that, It's so easy to Jihad an APC without a dedicated Gunner. Due to the wait time before you can start to fire.

The problem is, an APC with a dedicated driver and gunner means two people who just sit in a safe spot, doing nothing besides looking out for the enemy and waiting for friendlies to spawn. This means two people contributing almost nothing to the actual fight. Anyone operating an APC by themselves can usually do so effectively by manning the gun when stopped and firing at the enemy attempting to close in.

Ecko · Post by **Ecko** » 2007-05-20 13:43

daranz wrote:The problem is, an APC with a dedicated driver and gunner means two people who just sit in a safe spot, doing nothing besides looking out for the enemy and waiting for friendlies to spawn. This means two people contributing almost nothing to the actual fight. Anyone operating an APC by themselves can usually do so effectively by manning the gun when stopped and firing at the enemy attempting to close in.

They are contributing a spawn point. Which in the long run helps far more than 2 extra bodies in a cap zone.

Post by **bosco_** » 2007-05-20 13:53

Ecko wrote:I personally hate seeing that, It's so easy to Jihad an APC without a dedicated Gunner. Due to the wait time before you can start to fire.

Strange, I never got jihaded on duty.
Basically because I'm not moving when cars come up.

daranz · Post by **daranz** » 2007-05-20 14:01

Ecko wrote:They are contributing a spawn point. Which in the long run helps far more than 2 extra bodies in a cap zone.

They are doing the equivalent of two guys sitting at an out of the way rally point. If the APC is a good position, out of the way of direct enemy fire, but still close to objectives, then it doesn't need to move a lot. In fact, it is preferable that it doesn't move, because friendly infantry is attracted to APCs like moths to light bulbs. In such a situation, the driver is doing nothing besides sitting there and observing the front 180 degrees of the vehicle, which where the turret is probably looking as well, since there's plenty of infantry about to shoot at flanking enemies, and just hang around the back as they request sniper kits. The driver of the vehicle is better off grabbing H-AT and defending the APC from potential enemy armor, than sitting in his seat, and waiting, in case there suddenly is a need to move the APC while providing fire at the same time (which usually doesn't work too well due to the shakiness of the thing).