Project Reality Forums

danthemanbuddy wrote:Just try to change your techniques and the game will change.

The game won't change...

OK Chaps lets not over simplifiey the issue of lack of firefights and suppressing fire.


LOok at it this way:

Get 3 men in a possition where they can fire on decent area where the enemy are posssitioned but also have cover.

They fire and dont stop. The enemy are either killed if they are not behind cover or cannot move from their cover. Therefore they cannot seee and protect other areas of the flag - YOUR ROUT IN.

Get 3 men to enter from the ROUT that is porely watched and defended - NADE THEM AND SHOOT THEM IN THE BACK.

Therefore no need to prone spam becuase you either kill them from 50 + metres or nade and shoot them from directions they cannot shoot or see easily in, and prone spamming on there part will not save them. So, it is actauly GOOD POSSITION with suppressing fire and carefully PLANNED movements that will help make prone spamming inaffective.



So inconclusion, best way to avoid prone spamming is to fight twise as dirty, underhand and devious - whats you problem?



p.s There blind spot sometimes can actualy dead strait ahead (same direction as supp fire) but this relies on continuous and very strong suppressing fire being put down, but this can often take them by total suprise. However like always, it just depends on the terrain and buildings around the flag and what and where your squad members are/ have.

When I'm fired upon my standard procedure runs like this(As long as theres no decent cover in range):

For longer ranges:
Going prone,locating the enemy,then,and not earlier bring up iron sights,line 'em up and start too shoot.

From hitting the dirt 'till firing the first shot its about 1.5-2 seconds average.

If the enemy is right in front of me at short range:Just bring sights up,crouch and fire away.

This may not be very effective,but it works well for me and its not too unrealistic.

But if there is cover available i usually just make a run for it.

I made the mentioned experiences mainly in Vanilla,where i got the impression that nobody was able to use a gun.

But i have one thing about the RPGs:Imagine you are an Insurgent on the way to some spotted armor and you have your RPG already on you shoulde for a quick shot and then some american comes up right in front of you,what would you do:Just fire away or firstly drop the RPG,then pulling out the pistol,make it ready and at last shoot it?

danthemanbuddy wrote:If you see a squad mate prone dive. Warn him and flame him Teach him this is reality where 50 lbs of gear hurts like hell if you do that.

Seriously, standard engagement procedure for ANY army is to hit the deck if caught in the open. And wtf 50lbs hurts like hell bla bla bla HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK A BULLET HURTS!? I've never been in real combat but I do have military training and I have hit the deck more than once with 100lbs of gear on me!
Ok yeah it sucks that your accuracy doesn't get affected by throwing yourself at the ground but implying that hitting the deck with full combat gear on is something that real soldiers dont do was a bit to much for me.

Well, everything mentioned in the original post sort of is realistic but not in the way you think it is. Put yourself in the shoes of a soldier or insurgent. If you knew that there was an enemy ahead of you the will try to kill you and the only way to stop him is to kill him, wouldn't you use the most efficient weapon you have at your disposal?
You can't flame insurgent for using RPG as many have said on these forums that the RPG is a very common weapon in the insurgent arsenal. Maybe evem more common than the AK 47. But this is the only thing I'm willing to disagree with you about.
As for grenade launchers, don't they have a minimum detonation range for detonation? They had it in America's Army, and I think it would also affect rocket launchers as well but I'm not too sure about that.
Insta-proning is indeed a pain in the ***, and it's even more annoying for myself when I find myself doing it (by reflex). Thing is, they fixed it in BF 2142 but EA didn't bother releasing a patch for Bf 2. Maybe we could make a petition on the EA Bf forums or something.
On a side note, has anyone noticed that a support gunner does it in the Special Forces Add-on intro (ziplines to a balcony, drops to the ground and shoots an enemy dead) ?
EDIT: Just saw the forum options, it depends on which faction I'm playing with, as insurgent, I use the RPG 60 to 70 %of the time but as anything else, I use the rifle as I can't hit anything with a GL and I do occasionally insta-prone out of reflex.
EDIT 2: Where's my fecking cookie??!!11?1one

Most instaproners are SF, since their precious M4s recoil so much....just open fire on him, works for me half of the time...ok, you may get shot, but its not serious or theres a medic nearby...

See how the Infantry dynamics play out on larger maps with longer view distances. If you look at combat footage a lot of the engagements are taking place at 300m, something that rarely happens in BF2 / PR as it currently is.

Ideally we can get longer engagement ranges and get into having decent firefights as that is certainly the direction we want to take the mod.

Gyberg wrote:Seriously, standard engagement procedure for ANY army is to hit the deck if caught in the open. And wtf 50lbs hurts like hell bla bla bla HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK A BULLET HURTS!? I've never been in real combat but I do have military training and I have hit the deck more than once with 100lbs of gear on me!
Ok yeah it sucks that your accuracy doesn't get affected by throwing yourself at the ground but implying that hitting the deck with full combat gear on is something that real soldiers dont do was a bit to much for me.

Not in the Armed Forces, so don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty confident standard procedure isn't to hit the deck when confronted face to face with an armed hostile. You would always shoot first, not dive, because diving SHOULD limit your ability to return fire immediately. That's the whole damn problem with instaproning.

And I'm damn sure that SOMETHING could be done about it, I really don't buy "It's hardcoded sorry!". Can't add a delay for shooting if you prone? Can't add a sprint effect? Maybe these ideas really can't be implemented, but there's got to be some way to reduce it's effectiveness.

Guerra norte wrote:I usually get shot in the face and die.

Me too! High Five! *high fives, gets internal bleeding and dies*

Ah well.

Anyway, I usually (usually being the operative word here) "noob" "tube" them. At least, I think I do, if "noobtubing" means "to use the RPG as an offensive weapon". I know I should be taking awfully-aimed potshots at helicopters and tanks, which shrug them off and then proceed to kill me in the face. It's just that they're just oh so much more awesome than the other guns, so I just have to take people out with them.

ALTHOUGH! Importantly, I only do this as an Insurgent, where the RPG gunner has a poxy little pistol, and more RPGs than they can eat. If I'm MEC and playing as RPG gunner, I'll use the G3 as I only have one RPG and i'm not going to waste it on some poxy little soldier when I could use it to annoy somebody in a helicopter (target shooting little birds is hilarious. Pull!). The rifle's better for that.
And if i'm in any other faction (I.e. a faction that doesn't use the RPG) then I just use the rifle, as the other L-AT weapons just aren't as awesome. They're just anti-tank weapons, and as such are a bit boring. RPGs are awesome for anything: anti-tank, anti-personnel, anti-fish, etc.

Concerning insta-prone-diving; this is where you go from running to a prone position then shoot with improved accuracy? If so, then I probably do it from time to time. I usually crouch to fire, but if someone else is already on the ground then I go prone and shoot. Why bother crouching and giving the other person the advantage, when the game allows me to get an even playing field? Which I dearly need, as I am an awful shot.
Usually, though, if I do dive to the ground from a sprint, it's usually because (and this is true) I am running from an exploding thing, and I am miming the action of diving from the explosion in a manner similar to that seen in many action movies. I do this for my own entertainment.
(Although I do it a lot less on PRM. Usually because I practice it mainly on games of BF2 and BF2142, where I know that something is going to explode as I have just driven the something (usually a jeep or FAV, almost always covered in C4/RDX) into something else (usually a tank or battlewalker) and am about to trigger it. Cue screams of "Juuuuuuuump!" and explosions. Needless to say, I have never tried this in PRM, because people wouldn't understand how awesome it is.)

Also, I like this post:

Seriously, standard engagement procedure for ANY army is to hit the deck if caught in the open. And wtf 50lbs hurts like hell bla bla bla HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK A BULLET HURTS!? I've never been in real combat but I do have military training and I have hit the deck more than once with 100lbs of gear on me!

Heh heh. If I were a soldier (and I would never would be, because I can't be bothered to sign up to be shouted at by idiots, then shot at), I wouldn't be thinking, "Shit! They're shooting at us! But i'd better not jump to the floor, as this could potentially injure me." But then again, I am a wuss. ¬_¬

Anyway. Yes, rifles, insta-proning, noobtube. I do whatever it takes for me to have a laugh, and I don't care if it's not "realistic", as it is usually hilarious and or awesome.

Smitty4212 wrote:Not in the Armed Forces, so don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty confident standard procedure isn't to hit the deck when confronted face to face with an armed hostile. You would always shoot first, not dive, because diving SHOULD limit your ability to return fire immediately. That's the whole damn problem with instaproning.

Yeah, I got a bit pissed by reading his post, ofcourse it depends on the situation, sometimes you need to fire first and sometimes you need to go prone, it all depends on the situation.
But what we were trained to do was that if we were ambushed when walking in a fairly open spot, we should drop to the ground, identify the threath and return fire.

Gyberg wrote:Yeah, I got a bit pissed by reading his post, ofcourse it depends on the situation, sometimes you need to fire first and sometimes you need to go prone, it all depends on the situation.
But what we were trained to do was that if we were ambushed when walking in a fairly open spot, we should drop to the ground, identify the threath and return fire.

What I meant is not hitting the ground as soon as you get shot at. I think that is realistic.

What I mean is that hitting the ground firing, that is damn near impossible to shoot accurate or even close to the target. This is prone diving.

It is possible to tweak prone diving. Just put in the code when Prone, then delay. Guess we have to get DICE to do this.

Think realisitically for a second.

There is 3 unknown tangos in a warehouse area with three buildings. A large building that is the warehouse, a gatehouse, and a smaller hut off to the east.
Now you move up and you notice that one guy is in the gatehouse which is the west most tiny building while the other two guys are unseen but you know they are there. Starting at the west most cover you can either use the M203 on your M16 to blast the first guy out or you can spray a few rounds and attempt to get around the building while possibly exposing yourself to return fire from hidden snipers. Realisitically you'll lob the explosive in and cook the ******* before putting your life in danger.

As for instant proning? I always go down to the dirt, presents a smaller target which makes sense. Find the guy, Return fire unless there is nearby cover. I don't feel its cheating or cheap. Its my knee-jerk reaction and banning people for it (from an admin standpoint.) would be intensely hard and would have your server empty in a week.

Nobody says going prone is wrong. What is unrealistic is people diving and shooting their rifles, putting 10 rounds in your head before they hit the ground.

Draw my knife and charge them.

You pussies.

Bob_Marley wrote:Draw my knife and charge them.

You pussies.

Aye

danthemanbuddy wrote:Thank God v.6 is coming with the Limiting Grenadier/L AT Kit and at least optics and view distance.

This will make the engagements longer and further away. However with this coming, in v.5 I have never had a really good firefight like I used to have in CP Abadan or Muttrah. People Used to actually use their guns to suppress and move in. Right now, everytime we see another squad or person, they either shoot an rpg at you, throw a nade, or noobtube you. I personally tell my squad to use M16 only, and only throw nades over a wall or around a corner.

So the question is what happened to firefights? Why has the PR population resorted to using everything except their gun to kill the enemy. Cause I never get killed by a gun hardly. I have gone through rounds of basrah where ive never been killed by an AK, but killed by RPGS only What?

Also When we have 6v6 battles, I always find that one guy on the other team grabs marksman and basically wipes out the whole squad. I believe that marksman should be like the sniper kit. Only available once reinforcements come like 12v12 or 14 players.

All These factors make firefights disappear. However v.6 is changing that. But still the community has to start making a change in their gaming technique, and actually use their guns.

.

I feel the same way. This mod needs less explosions and more gunfire.

Why call it a 'noob tube', it's a grenade launcher and it's there to be used.

bosco wrote:I first engage with my rifle's noobtube, prone diving and instakilling them.

lmao

He's not kidding

whats a noobtube?

i'm sorry, i don't speak American.

DarkTalon wrote:whats a noobtube?

i'm sorry, i don't speak American.

An incredibly annoying term for a grenade launcher, just stick with grenade launcher and you won't look like a tit.