Project Reality Forums

Planes are too agile. Fighters need to have the same agility as the A-10 and Su-25 (approxamately). Dogfights are always a stalemate. Everytime I hear my TWR go off I die a little inside cause I know that I'm about to waste ten minutes of my life, not to kill anything. ALL of my air kills were gun shots from behind. It is WAY to easy to evade missiles and planes! The MiG-29 and F-16 need to have the Agility of the Su-25. That means that the more intelligent, patient, pilot will win. Not just a total mess of spinning and looping.

It would then be necessary to know your aircraft and what manuevers would save you and which ones will get you killed. IRL there are two modes of dogfighting engagements. Offensive and Defensive basic fighter maneuvers. If a jet is defensive, it should be at a disadvantge. If it is offensive, it should have the advantage. Right now, neither offense of defense has any clear advantage or disadvantage. Its just like an infantry fight. The ones who are smart, stick to cover, aim and use smoke will win. The ones who do none of the above will lose.

If all infantry took 100 rounds to die, all tactics go out the window, just run and gun. Same in the air, when jets are extremely hard to kill, it takes either dumb luck or what I like to call "turkey twitch fighting" (the equivalent of run and gun on the ground). However when it is easy to be killed in an aiplane one must think, know what maneuvers work in a given situation (cause right now you can just pull a loop whenever you want with no loss in power or anything), be paitient and get an early offensive advantage to win. So basically, just slow the game down in jets as much as you have with infantry.

...aircraft ARE agile, and spinning and turning ARE tactics used in the air to stay alive.

Not at 75mtrs off the ground.

If you have problems staying behind someone who "just a total mess of spinning and looping", WTF are you calling yourself a pilot for?

THe Devs are tweaking the panes again for o.7, so stop complaining, and wait for 0.7.

what Vikingo said...

I need to practice my flying a bit more. I can sort of fly around, but targeting is an issue. How do you all get your bombs to be so effective? I was using the frogfoot on a by-my-self LAN game on 64 Kashan, and tried to bomb the point with the US APC. I had planned to expend all ordinence and then check out the damage, but I botched the landing and ended up landing outside the base, all in one piece.

Checked out the damage. After firing off all but 60 of those little rockets, using both my bombs and quite a bit of cannon round, I discovered I had destoryed alot of the buildings there, including the ones on either side of the APC, but the APC itself seemed fine! What gives?

If youre chasing a jet and its performing all sorts of stunts and loops to evade you and you get pissed because of it, then youre too impatient...

Jets can pull outrageous turns at full speed and there's no G effects of blacking or redding out.

Expendable Grunt wrote: Checked out the damage. After firing off all but 60 of those little rockets, using both my bombs and quite a bit of cannon round, I discovered I had destoryed alot of the buildings there, including the ones on either side of the APC, but the APC itself seemed fine! What gives?

A problem when firing rockets is that the smoke obsucres your sight, and the target, Fire the rockets and make sure you're always aiming for the target and not straying up.

For Bombs, try to go as high as you can and dive bomb the target. Use that 1km view distance to your advantage.

The same for AGMs, but with these you can come from a lower angle. Just make sure you're lined up correctly.


Last but not least, plan ahead. I hate those pilots that improvise as soon as you se a target. When you see a target, take your time because they aren't going anywhere, especially on Kashan in the open. If you fly straight over them, they might think that you haven't seen them (BF2 noobs!), come back around and make sure that the bomb/AGM counts.

Jonny wrote:If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid.

Read that back to yourself.

Expendable Grunt wrote: Checked out the damage. After firing off all but 60 of those little rockets, using both my bombs and quite a bit of cannon round, I discovered I had destoryed alot of the buildings there, including the ones on either side of the APC, but the APC itself seemed fine! What gives?

Frogfoot's S-8 rockets dont do a lot of damage to armor, thats why you have 128 of them...

El_Vikingo wrote:A problem when firing rockets is that the smoke obsucres your sight, and the target, Fire the rockets and make sure you're always aiming for the target and not straying up.

For Bombs, try to go as high as you can and dive bomb the target. Use that 1km view distance to your advantage.

The same for AGMs, but with these you can come from a lower angle. Just make sure you're lined up correctly.


Last but not least, plan ahead. I hate those pilots that improvise as soon as you se a target. When you see a target, take your time because they aren't going anywhere, especially on Kashan in the open. If you fly straight over them, they might think that you haven't seen them (BF2 noobs!), come back around and make sure that the bomb/AGM counts.

I think you should write a guide

Y'all have to keep in mind this is the BF franchise and not Falcon

You don't see a proliferation of Jets in PR because we've only just started to work on the jets. We had them in other maps in previous releases largely just to "have jets".

I think the only map with Jets in v0.6 is Kashan Desert. We've pulled them out of just about every map because they don't suit the small vanilla sized maps. We'll certainly be making more 17sq km maps with 5km flight ceilings for future releases.

We made some changes to the AA and SA missiles with the last builds of PR v0.6 to try and improve them. But as noted we need to have a really decent test map and schedule some days where all we focus on testing is air combat dynamics.

The main thing that is missing is g loading. I dont know of any way to do that in BF2. Most modern airframes can exceed the human pilots ability to withstand the G loading, so it would be really nice if the gheymeyness of the jets was metered by a representation of g loading (blacking out when performing insane manoeuvres).

Ultimately jets in BF franchise based games are going to be gamey, tho we'll certainly do our best to use them where appropriate (large maps with high flight ceilings) and tweak them to be as realistic and fun as we can make them.

Yay, LSD effects in jets ftw

El_Vikingo wrote:Not at 75mtrs off the ground.

If you have problems staying behind someone who "just a total mess of spinning and looping", WTF are you calling yourself a pilot for?

THe Devs are tweaking the panes again for o.7, so stop complaining, and wait for 0.7.

I call myself a pilot because last round in Kashan I killed 10 enemy aircraft, 5 of them were MiGs. I know what I'm talking about. And as far as staying behind someone goes, I could probably hit enemy aircraft more accuratly than the current weapons could. And I am not complaining I'm making discussion. In reality, jerky twitchy movements of aircraft will slow the plane down and will stall. But with the BF2 engine that is unlikley to be possible I understand that, but I am really not asking for anything that is impossible for the engine. I am just saying that planes should be slowed down enought that evasion is not 100% guaranteed. But right now air combat is basically missing the law of gravity so there is a massive room for error for pilots who have someone behind them. So in order to compensate I am just suggesting to make aircraft maneuverable enough to evade, but not so fast that missiles can't even track.

Falkun wrote:I think you may be on to something. I was able to keep my jet's reticle on the enemy jet for several seconds; during that time the missile that I fired hit him perfectly. Firing upon the enemy jet with a lock, but letting him get out of my reticle, almost always resulted in a complete miss with the missile veering off into another direction.

The missiles are like 5 year olds on caffeine!

This is a true trick. Keep them in the butterzone, and their fine.

Butterzone = the area about an inch or 2 below the circle in the HUD (also where bombs land is here)

So those frogfoot missiles are anti-infantry weapons or something?

No, they're tank killers but you need to use lots of them (which is why you get lots of them). I believe the damage is somewhere around the RPG range (which is like 14 hits to the front armor of an M1, without sweet spots) so you really need to attack them from behind.