Civilians in .6 final

Clypp · Post by **Clypp** » 2007-07-17 04:05

Civilians are also leading to endless games. Tickets keep going UP as civilians are shot or knifed.

Whether you are a soldier or a civilian in a conflict, death is just about the worst thing that can happen to you. PR needs to make it that civilians are penalized for dying too. Running toward grenades in order to get blown up is about as far from realistic as you can get. It is very gamey. Civilians should share the same death timer everyone else has and get penalized for each death, the allied troops just get penalized more.

A sneaky trick the insurgents used in Desert Storm is to have a sniper shooting at US troops with a civilian standing or crouched beside him. At range it is nearly impossible to see his shirt as all you get is a silhouette. Not good.

What happened to me is a civilian drove over me and a few other guys in a car, and then got out. Ideally we could shoot him for that, but this was not the case. Once a civilian causes a death change him to a white shirted insurgent?

RightWingZionist · Post by **RightWingZionist** » 2007-07-17 04:07

'[R-DEV wrote:KingofCamelot']Maybe I'm just in a bad mood from real life and from reading posts where people keep asking the same questions over and over but...f*ck you.

I don't like that post at all. Stop being a smart ***, stop being ignorant, and stop being an *******.

You know damn well that there can be civilians in a war zone and your implied attitude that soldiers should be able to shoot any civilian in a war zone is sickening.

40% warning for being a jackass and for having a sig picture that is too big. Good day.

Bahahahaha lol
Look how they use the threat of banning. Communists don't like any form of humor especially used as ridicule.
Of course first you have to change my words around to "any" civilian too.
I'm not talking about any civilian just chillin' somewhere.

i.e based on a true story mind you;
SO.. If Mohammed is in his home shooting an AK at you and your squad from a window on the second floor and one of your squad members throws a grenade in the room to blow him up and winds up killing his children and his wife wearing a 5th century costume..you should be court marshaled?
And if "civilians" run around your tank while you are fighting the enemy, you should do nothing right?

Liberalism IS a mental disorder.
Ban me for defending those troops who ended up in that situation, I don't give a shit.
It will just back up what I think you are.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-07-17 04:09

RightWingZionist wrote:Bahahahaha lol
Look how they use the threat of banning. Communists don't like any form of humor especially used as ridicule.
Of course first you have to change my words around to "any" civilian too.
I'm not talking about any civilian just chillin' somewhere.

i.e based on a true story mind you;
SO.. If Mohammed is in his home shooting an AK at you and your squad from a window on the second floor and one of your squad members throws a grenade in the room to blow him up and winds up killing his children and his wife wearing a 5th century costume..you should be court marshaled?
And if "civilians" run around your tank while you are fighting the enemy, you should do nothing right?

Liberalism IS a mental disorder.
Ban me for defending those troops who ended up in that situation, I don't give a shit.
It will just back up what I think you are.

permaban.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-07-17 04:12

who make that piece of art in your sig eggman?

Post by **KingofCamelot** » 2007-07-17 04:14

Be warned! We is communists!

Back to the rational discussion...

vanity · Post by **vanity** » 2007-07-17 04:16

Clypp made a good point; civis right now are TRYING to get themselves killed. In real life I don't believe that would be the case. They'd help the insurgents, but I don't think they'd aggressively work to get themselves shot or blown up. They aren't jihadists or anything, just civis with neat shoes.

I don't have a solution or any real suggestions at the moment. But maybe something to brainstorm.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-07-17 04:17

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:who make that piece of art in your sig eggman?

some damn atheist libertarian pinko commie anti-semite sonofabitch.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-07-17 04:18

rhino?

Post by **eggman** » 2007-07-17 04:19

vanity wrote:Clypp made a good point; civis right now are TRYING to get themselves killed. In real life I don't believe that would be the case. They'd help the insurgents, but I don't think they'd aggressively work to get themselves shot or blown up. They aren't jihadists or anything, just civis with neat shoes.

I don't have a solution or any real suggestions at the moment. But maybe something to brainstorm.

Yeah .. we'll see how it goes

We obviously knew they would cause some problems and we'll work those issues out over time.

But the first 24h after a release is not really something we'll react to. Especiually not when people are calling us communists because we give away a game for free

Post by **KingofCamelot** » 2007-07-17 04:20

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']some damn atheist libertarian pinko commie anti-semite sonofabitch.

So you mean Slick?

@Vanity, unfortunately its always hard to instill the fear of death into anyone in a video game, but its definitely something I'd like to look into. We need some strong reasons for civilians to not use themselves as cannon fodder.

Clypp · Post by **Clypp** » 2007-07-17 04:24

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman'] Especiually not when people are calling us communists because we give away a game for free

Oooooh. Now I get it. It all makes sense now, thanks for clearing that up.

...

Communist.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-07-17 04:51

Give a civilian an objective, along with repairing and healing. Give those slobs a sense in life.

L.O.Brow · Post by **L.O.Brow** » 2007-07-17 05:04

On the topic of civilians... I've checked the PR manual "What's new in 0.6" section (or whatever it was called - in any case, the only section that's about 0.6), but there isn't much information about the penalties involved in killing a civvie. Basically all the manual says is "you should knife'em".

While participating in the open beta I was initially under the impresion that killing a civilian meant the UK team lost 10 tickets. However, I later realized that they didn't actually lose 10 tickets, but rather the insurgents gained 10 tickets - the "losing 10 tickets" was apparently related to dying while operating a vehicle. It also seemed like doing *something* gained the UK team 10 tickets, but I'm not sure what (destroying a cache maybe?)

At one point it seemed to me like the person who killed a civilian got a -25 point teamplay score penalty... but more than once this penalty didn't seem to apply (someone killed a civilian and got no penalty). So you'll excuse me if I'm still a bit lost on the finer points of civilian killing penalties

Can someone straighten this out for me? (or alternatively link to an updated version of the manual)

paul · Post by **paul** » 2007-07-17 05:12

Here is an idea...

Why not make the civilian a limited class. Limit the game to 2-6 civilians. That will eliminate the issue of having 60% of the team playing insurgent.

Also, perhaps make the insurgent kit high risk. Either make it so that there are 2-6 civilian kits period (they don't "respawn") or make the spawn time for someone who has died as a civilian ungodly long. (1 - 2 minutes?) Or perhaps make it so that the the player who is the civilian loses a large amount of points when they die.

In regards to the civilian using cars to run people over...

I like the idea to make a civilian a regular insurgent when they kill someone. Or perhaps the civilian dies if they kill anyone???

Or you could fix it easily and not allow civilians to drive cars.

knewman · Post by **knewman** » 2007-07-17 06:06

It seems like most of these posts are in the wrong section *cough*suggestionforum*cough*
I was in the server the OP is talking about as an Insurgant and I can say they weren't exactly lining up behind the door as you described. But I will say they were running into places they shouldn't have been. I didn't play civilian all round and ended up with top score so it was a pretty sweet match for me. I really though you guys were gonna take it in the end, really good push after you got past the gate.

causticbeat · Post by **causticbeat** » 2007-07-17 06:09

we need a timeout room like in ArmA evolution

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-07-17 16:45

Well, part of the problem I think is the map. Civilians fit in maps like Al Basrah and Helmand, and maybe in certain areas of Desertstorm, but I really don't see why they would be helping with the defense of a gate or that outpost, while still being civilians who should not be shot at. Maybe, if possible, put up either a no-go zone for the civs, or, more fitting but probably more difficult too, remove the penalty when they are shot while being in certain areas.

samfink · Post by **samfink** » 2007-07-17 16:59

how about restrict the civilian kit to certain maps? as in, maps where civilians being present are realistic, like Al basrah ( although how realistic, given the brits enjoy civilian support, is one to question)

robbo · Post by **robbo** » 2007-07-17 17:02

L.O.Brow LOVE your sig

Yeah people will settle down once they no the punishment for the TK's maybe put the TK punishment system explained when maps are loading?

WNxKenwayy · Post by **WNxKenwayy** » 2007-07-17 17:06

*cough*ifonlywehadanonlethalshotgun*cough*

excuse me there.

*cough*