Project Reality Forums

'[R-DEV wrote:fuzzhead']
Squad 5 decides its a great idea to come down and join us, brining with him his merry band of specops.

I've been hoping for a tongue-in-cheek fix to the Spec Ops. Like a model where the back of their jacket says "*********" or their rifle shoots pink tracers or something. A model where the SLAM is represented by a stuffed teddy-bear would also suffice. They're equally harmless.

The OP complains about smoking out the enemy, and then we see 10 posts on how someone smoked THEMSELVES out and how bad it is. Smoking out the enemy is a great tactic. Heres how it works for a squad that is intelligent. Smoke them and cover the exits...have your grenadier bomb the shite out of the place and everyone nades it at the same time. Afterwards you sneak up in 2-3 fireteams, finding a secure post to sit and wait till the smoke dies. Afterwards the enemy will start moving...not knowing your inside position and you have turned the tables on them. I can't tell you how many times I've seen squadies enter into an enemies position..throw a nade or two then die because the bad guys are actually defending it and setup on the entrances. Smoke prevents them from pot-shoting you, generally moving around...and making a coherent defense...you just have to nade spam them and sneak in. Its very effective especially in taking bunkers (seven gates-temple) as there are 5 guys covering the door waiting to waste you....smoke>nade>nade>more nades>enter and hide...execute. It works seriously but requires guys to not just run up into the defenders like idiots.

vanity wrote:I've been hoping for a tongue-in-cheek fix to the Spec Ops. Like a model where the back of their jacket says "*********" or their rifle shoots pink tracers or something. A model where the SLAM is represented by a stuffed teddy-bear would also suffice. They're equally harmless.

I still enjoy the idea of giving them a red Fez, diner jacket with bow tie, burmuda shorts and high-top sneaks without socks. We could throw in horn-rimmed glasses for good measure.

vanity wrote:I've been hoping for a tongue-in-cheek fix to the Spec Ops. Like a model where the back of their jacket says "*********" or their rifle shoots pink tracers or something. A model where the SLAM is represented by a stuffed teddy-bear would also suffice. They're equally harmless.

Can't remember exactly, but one mod had those easter egg teddy bears for C4 model.

Outlawz wrote:Can't remember exactly, but one mod had those easter egg teddy bears for C4 model.

I hopped on a server and joining the only available squad, I spawned into an entire squad of Spec Ops who were feverishly working to eliminate a tank inside of a hanger.

"You guys know those SLAMS don't work against tanks, right? Someone should spawn as engineer to end this madness"
-"No, they work. It just takes a couple of them"
"Oh, ok. I'll be outside walking around. Lemme know when you get him"

lol...slammers, they just dont want to admit that their leet spec ops class just isn't that useful in comparision.

VipersGhost wrote:The OP complains about smoking out the enemy, and then we see 10 posts on how someone smoked THEMSELVES out and how bad it is. Smoking out the enemy is a great tactic. Heres how it works for a squad that is intelligent. Smoke them and cover the exits...have your grenadier bomb the shite out of the place and everyone nades it at the same time. Afterwards you sneak up in 2-3 fireteams, finding a secure post to sit and wait till the smoke dies. Afterwards the enemy will start moving...not knowing your inside position and you have turned the tables on them. I can't tell you how many times I've seen squadies enter into an enemies position..throw a nade or two then die because the bad guys are actually defending it and setup on the entrances. Smoke prevents them from pot-shoting you, generally moving around...and making a coherent defense...you just have to nade spam them and sneak in. Its very effective especially in taking bunkers (seven gates-temple) as there are 5 guys covering the door waiting to waste you....smoke>nade>nade>more nades>enter and hide...execute. It works seriously but requires guys to not just run up into the defenders like idiots.

What actually happens in that case if the enemy is even remotely competent. You smoke the CP, waste all your ordinance on an enemy that may or may not be rushing out. If you choose to enter at this point, you sit around until the smoke clears.....if the enemy doesn't find you first, which is generally what happens.....if your team manages not to get jumpy and tk eachother because they cannot tell friend from foe.

...and the whole sneaking in part is cancelled out because once you throw smoke, they pretty much know you're there and you've just helped them set up your own ambush.

If your team survives until the smoke clears, you'll have a cartoon moment where you'll find enemy and friendly all "hiding" in the same room and then all hell will break loose. Not a very tactically sound approach.

I'm sure it could go down that way...but the point of the smoke is to allow you to bomb that **** out of them for a couple of seconds and preventing them from poping up and pot-shoting you. We used to call this getting nade raped...you are pulling out your nades etc and someone pops up and kills you. Sucks, so smoke them...its obvious from the previous posts "He smoked the place and we couldn't see the incoming enemy"....this allows other squads to move in as well. After you've naded them quickly...then run up there and defend. Defending is easier in PR than attacking usually, unless they can get some nades on your position.

Wasting all your ordinance? Hell half the team has a damn ammo bag, including support...what do I care about ordinance. I can count on one hand how many times I've tried to pull up a nade and been out and unable to resupply right there.

When I'm talking about sneaking...I dont mean some complex thing...I mean just go to a good spot and put your back to the wall with a buddy. Its better than rushing in there with 3 guys watching a stairway/entrance....we see that **** happen ALL the time and they die.

btw...not saying its the best of all, but certainly has its place...my squad used to it clear out an insanely foritfied Temple bunker on Seven Gates. You dont see that work very often. Only one of us survived but none of them did

VipersGhost wrote:I'm sure it could go down that way...but the point of the smoke is to allow you to bomb that **** out of them for a couple of seconds and preventing them from poping up and pot-shoting you. We used to call this getting nade raped...you are pulling out your nades etc and someone pops up and kills you. Sucks, so smoke them...its obvious from the previous posts "He smoked the place and we couldn't see the incoming enemy"....this allows other squads to move in as well. After you've naded them quickly...then run up there and defend. Defending is easier in PR than attacking usually, unless they can get some nades on your position.

Wasting all your ordinance? Hell half the team has a damn ammo bag, including support...what do I care about ordinance. I can count on one hand how many times I've tried to pull up a nade and been out and unable to resupply right there.

When I'm talking about sneaking...I dont mean some complex thing...I mean just go to a good spot and put your back to the wall with a buddy. Its better than rushing in there with 3 guys watching a stairway/entrance....we see that **** happen ALL the time and they die.

Well my post was made in humor, mixed with a bit of reality.

Since I am playing a game called Project REALITY, I try to use realistic tactics as often as the limits of the game allow. Any tactic generally used focuses on the safety of the squad first and formost (as much as can be afforded in a combat situation). somehow, I don't think this tactic would quite fly.

Secondly, you shouldn't be standing in the open and "nade raping" where can be easily "pot-shotted". Any attack on a hardened position needs to be made from cover/concealment and utilizing cover fire.

You missed the point...being nade raped means not raping them with nades...but you yourself get owned because you had a nade out and they popped up with a gun, thus killing you. When did I say I'm standing in the open, lol why would I do that when I'm trying to assault a position.

BTW...two types of smoking occurs IRL.

1- Smoke screens places between the enemy and the friendlys
2-Obscuration smoke placed on top of the enemy position thereby degrading his observational abilities overall.

If it doens't work for you fine, but the previous posts enforce the common sense that smoke all over your defensive position SUCKS to have...that is a fact. How you make your attack work after that is up to you...everyone has a different style. But smoking an enemys position is entirely effective and used IRL.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... index.html

Good read.

Obscuring Smoke

Obscuring smoke is smoke delivered directly on or immediately in front of enemy positions to blind or degrade their vision both within and beyond their location. Use obscuring smoke to attack and defeat enemy target acquisition and guidance systems at their source. Projected means, such as artillery, mortars, rockets, and rifle grenades, generally deliver obscuring smoke.

For example, smoke delivered on an enemy antitank guided missile (ATGM) position may prevent the system from acquiring or subsequently tracking targets, thereby reducing its effectiveness. Employment of obscuration smoke on an attacking armored force may cause it to vary its speed, inadvertently change its axis of advance, deploy prematurely, and rely on nonvisual means of command and control.

So yes, it is very valid to put smoke directly on enemy positions.

But putting smoke on an enemy occupied area to immediately afterwards assault it is not something I interpret as Obscuring Smoke.

No other visibility reducing smoke application technique suggest putting smoke directly on the enemy position.

Check http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... h1.htm#s11

So you are totally right. The two are done. But, when you use obscuring smoke on a position, it's not to assault it immediately afterwards.

A good use of obscuring smoke would be, for example, to put smoke on a sniper nest or AA position in order to slip in the covered area.

It does work for attacking a very secure position in my experience. So many time we move in on a bunker or fort...and a guy pops up here...then over there...then someone dies on the stairs. This happens ALL the time in-game. This is because we are attacking a defended position and they have the advantage of concealed mobility and observation. Take these away by dropping some smoke on them...and then bomb the **** out of them with nades/genadiers. This works all the time on mestia, seven gates and kashan bunkers. It basically just obscures their vision enough to allow you to safely get some nades on their minus the firefight. Lots of squads dont use the grenadiers so I expect most dont use this...it is indeed very effective as the grenadier has unlimited ammo with all the riflemen aruond nowadays. It is a slower, more methodical approach...most of the time after you nade them for a bit...they will change over from defensive approach to an offensive one...leaving their advantage and venturing into more vulnerable areas (spreadout usually)...and much easier to pick off.

your not alowed to throw smoke inside bunkers and houses becasue they are public places and youll get a fine

hell yeah.

I use this Simple guide:

Smoke When Attacking
No Smoke When Defending

mrmong wrote:your not alowed to throw smoke inside bunkers and houses becasue they are public places and youll get a fine

I live in oregon, the supposed "Green state" where we can smoke where we please. Granola and Cancer for everyone, whoo hoo!

Perhaps since it is the Devs intention to bring us as much reality as possible to this mod, we should respect the spirit of that and use realistic tactics as much as possible. This does require some thought and research and Geogob has demonstrated rather than just saying "this is my style" piss off if you don't like it. It has nothing to do with like or dislike and everything to do with keeping a mind for realism. ...and because this IS just a game, certain aspects of realism can only be brought to it by those of us who play it.

heh ok, I think you are taking this personally or something as I'm certainly not saying piss off. I was more or less accepting everyones different style but defending the idea\concept that smoke works at times.

I did my research but didn't feel the need to drop in links, but really though dude my ideas were on point. I said smoke and drop nades on them...a totally realistic attack...I took it a step further and added in the "sneaky" part but whose to say that is unrealistic, so why say I'm the one who is not researching?? I did research and posted a quasi-realistically viable use of smoke. No offense but you were the one suggesting to go the unrealistic approach of never smoking out an enemys position saying that its one of the "worst tactical moves". So why come at me saying I"M the one who didn't do my research, when maybe you could say the same of yourself?

Really who cares though its just smoke, long day here, everyone has a different style that may or may not work for them. In the end rest assured I will respectfully refrain from smoking whilst in your squad my friend. Adios

Heh...Dueling Ghosts

VipersGhost is right on with everything he said, the others saying it isn't good for assaults are just military enthusiast who think everyone is gonna know how to do bounding suppression fire with a flank assault. it works as a simplistic foward rush. smoke the enemy, run up to the smoke and chuck all your grenades into it, then clear em out.