Project Reality Forums

[R-CON]DJJ-Terror wrote:sounds good but, if we overdo things like:

- commander needs to plce tham,
- mortar squad needs to operate them,
- others need to request covering fire,
- commander needs to issue an order
- mortar squad needs to fire (in the meantime mortat squad is getting borred)

.. uff.. too much?

I was kind of thinking the same thing. I don't think the mortars should be a clean cut, select the kit, drop it and fire. But I don't think we should take it to the point of excessive complexity. I just think it would be odd that we can have extremley expensive assests like aircraft and armor or even H-AT be something soley the responsibility of a single person with no chain of command. But to operate a mortar you need a commander, commander asset placement, limited kit, spotter and ammo support readily available to operate a much more "basic" piece of equipment.

Now again I'm not saying make the mortar kit a non-limited kit. If it was a limited kit, had decent ammo and a spotter (could still blind fire though). If you want to tie it to a commander asset you could enforce a 100-200m radius restriction for placement but I don't know if it's really needed.

Note: There is a guy on here who was actually in a mortar team, think his name is rico11b or something to that effect? He probably would have some extremely insightfull details.

Used to be an 81mm mortar op.......... make that a +3

[R-CON]DJJ-Terror wrote:sounds good but, if we overdo things like:

- commander needs to plce tham,
- mortar squad needs to operate them,
- others need to request covering fire,
- commander needs to issue an order
- mortar squad needs to fire (in the meantime mortat squad is getting borred)

.. uff.. too much?

That would be overdoing things, yes. However, to simplify the whole thing (mortars shouldn't be lugged about too much) if they were a 5-minute respawn, destroyable crew weapon at a 'mortar pits' non-flag objective, with a fixed firing arc...

Sequence of Play
- Everyone spawns
- Squads 1-3 head for the next major objective (1) - and cap it.
- Squad 4 heads for the mortar pits (MP) - and get set up.
- Squads 1-3 move onto the next major objective (2) under covering fire from (MP)

I've seen it done in the UT Mod "Red Orchestra - Ostfront" - the mortar and ammo is a spawnable item, each mortar only needed one person to fire it. The operator had a mortar in place, and an 'ammo crate' behind it. Run to ammo crate, 'pick up bomb', Run to mortar, 'Use Mortar'. Each mortar could be fired once every 5 seconds.

The mortar shells were randomly placed on a fixed target - basically a single, damaging, randomly placed explosion over an objective. It's down to the assaulters to let the mortar crew know when to stop shooting - especially if the target is off the minimap.

Have 3-5 of these mortar emplacements, and you end up with a fixed, easy to use, non-commandscreen authorised support unit for a single hard-to-breach objective.

It would also encourage some kind of squad to squad comms, mainly because having your own side shell you to death is embarrassing. =)

In short, yes, I know this is all about the Reality of modern combat, but we do have to make some compromises. Commander Artillery could be dropped on a map and have fixed mortar emplacements added in instead - but they'd only be effective at 'breaching the walls', after which it'd be down to the infantry to progress further into enemy territory.

One map that springs to mind on this would be that damn up-over-the-ridge chinese-have-scopes-and-the-marines-dont mission that i am loving to hate with a passion. If the marines had, say, 2 - 3 fixed position mortar emplacements (or small batteries thereof) down in the original spawn area, then the three bunkers on the top of the ridge could be partially suppressed, leaving the marines some degree of cover to actually get off the starting blocks.

Hell - seeing as it's such a big map anyways, commander arty could still be used, as the mortars would only be effective in the initial push.

Just thinking aloud here, seeing that I've played that map -so- many times in the past couple of days.

-ZD-

-ZD-

What about the insurgents? it'll be realistic if they get a mortar kit aswell.. perhaps the conventional armies can have a mortar battery and insurgents just the 1.

The Power wrote:What about the insurgents? it'll be realistic if they get a mortar kit aswell.. perhaps the conventional armies can have a mortar battery and insurgents just the 1.

Or a place where they can pick up RPG tubes and a crapload of shells for it ?!? =) Kinda like a customizable add-on weapon to the kit, each person can only carry 1 loaded tube + 2 rockets ?

Anything is possible if the scripting is good enough. The thing is - the scripting wouldn't have to be fantastic for this - simply give each kit a launcher, but no ammo. The weapon won't select in game with no ammo to fire from it - just ensure that the reload ammopacks have no effect on the RPG launcher.

The only downers I can see at the moment :
- Chokepoint nadespam and smokespam is always a curse on maps... Artyspam is irritating, but at least it ends soon... rpgspam on the top would be damn annoying!
- 20 Insurgents line up.... multiple 'whooooosh' noises.... smoketrail-induced client lag ?!?
-!- Any more for any more ?!?

-ZD-

ZephyrDraevyn wrote:True off-table arty for fair gameplay would either have to be assigned for both teams, or would have to have a 10 minute 'reload' after each extended volley or something - because the OpFor wouldn't be able to deny them as an asset.

ZD

Maybe blowing the comm. post?


As for the whole operating thing, the arty in BF2 has a firing animation, so MAYBE you could make a "crew" using the player models that have a "feed shell and cover ears" animation for when it fires, like the arty does in BF2.

Expendable Grunt wrote:As for the whole operating thing, the arty in BF2 has a firing animation, so MAYBE you could make a "crew" using the player models that have a "feed shell and cover ears" animation for when it fires, like the arty does in BF2.

Werry good idea.
it will certanly save more manpower (players) for real fight!!!!

One does not simply walk into mortar-fire.

Commander asset with cute animation thingy works just fine as a replacement for artillery in my book.

Red Halibut wrote:One does not simply walk into mortar-fire.

Well said.

If we have bots operating part of the mortar can they be killed and hence slow the firing down of the mortar crew?

What are you guys talking about? It's gonna be a commander deployable asset, like the AA gun. The commander will place it near bunkers and firebases and you can enter it and use it like an AA or TOW.

The commander part is just deploying them. You can fire wherever you like, but a good team would have some kind of communication with the commander to request barrages in specific places. That is up to the players...

If any help is required with info on the British 81mm Mortar, IE how it works/operates just give me a shout. I was 6 yrs mortar platoon in the TA & have operated in all three positions of a mortar Det. & can also try to explain how fire missions are given to the (usually) 3 barrel mortar plt

Outlawz wrote:He means, how will we operate them, shoot them, deploy... :d uh:
In 0.7 everything will be limited, lol

:d uh: :d uh: :d uh: :d uh: :d uh: :d uh: :d uh: :d uh:

I don't always think things through

I didn't mean for them to be bots, but just part of the gun. Maybe simply shooting that portion (you can do multiple meshes on a model right?) of the weapon disables it for x time.

just make it off-map for shits sake, a 120mm mortar has a range of 7000+ meters, that's enough for every map except Kashan.

Need....mortar.....

I did mortar work in the polish military, so i will definatley have fun! looking forward!

Anyway, I think it should be just a kit, not a commander asset, etc. Mortars are supposed to be the "quick, mobile" son of the queen (arty) it self. Getting the commander in this is just a pain. But anyway, there needs to be alot of extra shit the mortar man gets so he can do this alright. Its a lot of work to get mortars to work, windage, direction, height, its hella awsome when you get the kill tough.

Mortar=Needs to have a very large blast radious, making it actually useful.
Spotter=How about introducing a spotter kit? a spotter kit would possbily include a Soflam, 3 field dressings, red/green smoke, nade or 2, m16, or m4? If you will, then make sure you have a soflam on there becuase the little meter bar on that thing is a god. Or, just give the soflam back to the SF kit.


Just my input.

if we get morters how will they be deployed?

Quite badly, i would imagine.

...mongol...

ROFL
QFT

[R-MOD]Mongolian_dude wrote:Quite badly, i would imagine.

...mongol...

Hehe What elce would you expect?

Hopefully on the ground? If you give them to players they'll do dumb things like deploying them inside buildings.