Project Reality Forums

Well, normally if it was a "bad action" people apologize immediately, so they already know it was BS. In that case I forgive (I usually forgive all accidental TKs). Btw, punishing TKs has (at least in vBF2) no further effect on the score of the TKer. The points are already deducted, when the TK happens. Same with PR?

willgar wrote:Disagree - if an accidental team kill is due to really bad or reckless play then a punish will ultimately help that player to play better in future. If you just forgive, then that player will never learn that poor actions have consequences

Lol it's a person, not a rat that you can teach stuff (not really effectively) by giving it electroshocks.

Countless psychological research has demonstrated that even for a rat (but more so for humans), punishment (=punishing a tk) is a very poor stimulant to learn something.

Modelling on the other hand (setting the example) and positive reinforcement (forgiving) are very effective to stimulate new behaviour.

In fact, punishing doesn't teach the person/rat anything, but how to avoid the punishment.
The result is... more creativity in breaking the rules.

I think you've been believing Clockwork orange a bit too much. Unlike the film's reality, humans aren't rats.

How much creativity is needed to teamkill ?
Punishment does alter behaviour, otherwise why kick and ban ?

ArmedDrunk&Angry wrote:How much creativity is needed to teamkill ?
Punishment does alter behaviour, otherwise why kick and ban ?

Believe me I read A lot about this subject. Punishment is a bad tool, and should always be avoided if a positive response hasn't been tried yet.

A ban isn't so much a punishment as just keeping them away from you.

Biggaayal wrote:Countless psychological research has demonstrated that even for a rat (but more so for humans), punishment (=punishing a tk) is a very poor stimulant to learn something.

Modelling on the other hand (setting the example) and positive reinforcement (forgiving) are very effective to stimulate new behaviour.

In fact, punishing doesn't teach the person/rat anything, but how to avoid the punishment.
The result is... more creativity in breaking the rules.

No. Theres punishment for learning and punishment for deterrence. You're talking about punishment for learning, which doesn't apply here. Punishment (jail time or fines) is part of every nation's legal system, and one of the big reasons for its existence is to deter criminals. And it works. People fill up parking meters, park in the appropriate spaces, etc. to avoid being ticketed.

ANYWAY....

I don't see why people get so antsy about being punished. Sure, there are times when some moron will run over your mine and punish you, but theres really no reason to worry about it. You will NOT get enough punishments to be kicked, unless you deserve it.

If I am closing in on an enemy position and one of my teammates misaims a grenade or takes both me and the enemy out with an explosive, it's understandable and the tk will be forgiven. Any time there is a tk where there simply isn't enough time in the situation to take the steps necessary to check for friend or foe will be forgiven. But if I am closing in (I.E. moving with my back to my allies) and they shoot at me multiple times (eventually killing me,) they deserve to be punished. Next time they had better ensure that the target (that isn't posing an active threat) is actually an enemy before firing, or they should be punished again. And again, and again, until they learn to watch what they're shooting at.

Saying "sorry" doesn't fix anything. The deed is done and dead people can't hear you apologize.

I have to say the attitude of some of these clans that run servers is appauling and displays nothing more than power hungry arrogance simply because "they can". Unfortunately not everyone that is given admin status for a server SHOULD have admin status.

What can you do other then to not play there if they do not admin in a fair manner? I dont' think anyone here can really do much about how they admin their server as long as they are putting up the $$ for it. If no one plays there then that may send the only message that CAN be sent.

This is a valid complaint, however.

punishing for a TK is stupid , (unless blatant) , it dose not help people learn it just pisses people off, every 1 tk's every now and then it happens. forgive and play on.

Zybon wrote:No. Theres punishment for learning and punishment for deterrence. You're talking about punishment for learning, which doesn't apply here. Punishment (jail time or fines) is part of every nation's legal system, and one of the big reasons for its existence is to deter criminals. And it works. People fill up parking meters, park in the appropriate spaces, etc. to avoid being ticketed.

ANYWAY....

I can see what you mean, but punishment for deterrence is legal concept. In psychology, they would say punishing to learn not to do something... My point being that they are the same, with a different name.

-If the punishment works, why are there murders/tk's?
-Jail=Ban; you protect the society first, punishment is second.

Gazzthompson has the right view imo. Either you want to win as a team, and you don't irritate your team-mates by punishing or you don't.

By the way, on TG I believe 3 punishes earns you a kick, possibly ban for an hour (not sure). All you need is one bad nade, and three "team"-mates and you're out for quite some time. I don't do that.

Punishing is to boot intentional TK-ers when there is no admin around.

Ikarti I've had enough of your shit! You get mad when i piss off method on bf2s, You stalk me to RH and tk me, And now you got a problem with me making a complaint against ******** like you. Ikarti dont test me kid! I hate noobs like you! I am going to get you back if you piss me off enough!

When i get TKed i usually give them like 10 sec to say sorry and if they dont i press page down. I mean its really annoying when i manage to sneak in the enemy base and try to knife a guy, someone starts shooting and he hits ME.

Harrelson wrote:i once saw a player get banned for chatting too much on the server. i told the admin that was too harsh, he should have kicked him instead and the next thing i know im being warned for insulting an admin!

that was me.
right?
i think it was kashan desert and i was complaining about various things. but not a whole lot

Biggaayal wrote:I can see what you mean, but punishment for deterrence is legal concept. In psychology, they would say punishing to learn not to do something... My point being that they are the same, with a different name.

They aren't the same. In order to learn (through punishment) not to do something you need to first do it. Being deterred means that you know the consequences before hand.

-If the punishment works, why are there murders/tk's?
-Jail=Ban; you protect the society first, punishment is second.

Because people either don't care or they are irrational. The other big purpose for punishment is to get rid of these people.

Either you want to win as a team, and you don't irritate your team-mates by punishing or you don't.

Sounds like a personal problem.

All you need is one bad nade, and three "team"-mates and you're out for quite some time. I don't do that.

Granted, but as I said, it depends on the circumstances. If they simply thought the 3 people were enemies, then they deserve to be kicked. I'm sure they'll check their map for allies next time. If it resulted from the game being wonky (or the TKed people share some of the blame) people will recognize this and forgive you.
Of course there ARE people who will punish you when it's unwarranted, but they normally don't stick around for too long and you'd need to TK many of these types of people to be kicked, so it's really nothing to worry (be irritated) about.

Punishing is to boot intentional TK-ers when there is no admin around.

Yea, but most of the time an admin is around, and PR has built in anti-tk methods. It would seem that PR is remarkably free from uncontrolled TKers. Someone that is too trigger happy to tell friend from foe wouldn't be using a weapon in the military for long. Punishing represents that.

David.Podedworny wrote:Ikarti I've had enough of your shit! You get mad when i piss off method on bf2s, You stalk me to RH and tk me, And now you got a problem with me making a complaint against ******** like you. Ikarti dont test me kid! I hate noobs like you! I am going to get you back if you piss me off enough!

Whoa, temper temper! Contrary to your belief, I just don't like ignorant 13 year olds getting on forums and advocating racism and apartheid because they're rebelling against liberal parents. m3thod's a friend of mine, but the reason I did it was because I knew it would get a reaction out of you and give me a cheap laugh(I FRAPSed that delightful little incident too.) But this isn't about that forum or me teamkilling you. It's about you wanting the world to stop for you. It's a game. It's not like you're paying to have that server up. If it's that bad, people won't play there and it'll teach them to not be ********.

And calling me a kid (which I'm not, I know for a fact I'm a good deal older than you) and a noob, which means absolutely nothing to me, and threatening to GET ME BACK IN VIDEO GAMES!!!!!1111 just makes it even funnier. I'm looking on the brightside. You still have the chance to grow up yet.

Ikarti wrote:Whoa, temper temper! Contrary to your belief, I just don't like ignorant 13 year olds getting on forums and advocating racism and apartheid because they're rebelling against liberal parents. m3thod's a friend of mine, but the reason I did it was because I knew it would get a reaction out of you and give me a cheap laugh(I FRAPSed that delightful little incident too.) But this isn't about that forum or me teamkilling you. It's about you wanting the world to stop for you. It's a game. It's not like you're paying to have that server up. If it's that bad, people won't play there and it'll teach them to not be ********.

And calling me a kid (which I'm not, I know for a fact I'm a good deal older than you) and a noob, which means absolutely nothing to me, and threatening to GET ME BACK IN VIDEO GAMES!!!!!1111 just makes it even funnier. I'm looking on the brightside. You still have the chance to grow up yet.

Dude wtf does this have to with what i say on bf2s? Let me guess method got mad and would'nt sodomize you? Want me to go lower? Not like that you sick *******! I mean in insults.

Stop brining shit from another forum to here. This is PR we discuss PR not peoples political leanings and other bullshit! I admit i'm a conservative you dont like my views fine then but start an inter forum war!

Also you're the perfect definition of a hippie liberal you force your opinions on everyone else and when they disagree with them you go otu screaming and shouting about how wrong they are! Go back to san francisco turn on your Foreign Arthouse films and leave me the fuck alone!

I have friends too real real crazy friends. If they met you on the street well i'm not gonna describe it but it will be painful and extremely humiliating.(Not what method does to you everynight)

By the way your one to talk! You have to come here and harass me because i disagree with one of your friends over the internet.

And i forgot to say GTFO PR forums and let us discuss what we have to discuss.

Sorry guys about that he's just a little troll that likes to piss me off, Anyway i was thinking if the punishing system could be reworked in PR so people dont know who punished them and their points would'nt deduct just they would get an increased spawn time or some other penalty which would make near impossible for an admin to kick a person that punished him.

David.Podedworny wrote:Dude wtf does this have to with what i say on bf2s? Let me guess method got mad and would'nt sodomize you? Want me to go lower? Not like that you sick *******! I mean in insults.

Stop brining shit from another forum to here. This is PR we discuss PR not peoples political leanings and other bullshit! I admit i'm a conservative you dont like my views fine then but start an inter forum war!

Also you're the perfect definition of a hippie liberal you force your opinions on everyone else and when they disagree with them you go otu screaming and shouting about how wrong they are! Go back to san francisco turn on your Foreign Arthouse films and leave me the fuck alone!

I have friends too real real crazy friends. If they met you on the street well i'm not gonna describe it but it will be painful and extremely humiliating.(Not what method does to you everynight)

By the way your one to talk! You have to come here and harass me because i disagree with one of your friends over the internet.

And i forgot to say GTFO PR forums and let us discuss what we have to discuss.

Sorry guys about that he's just a little troll that likes to piss me off, Anyway i was thinking if the punishing system could be reworked in PR so people dont know who punished them and their points would'nt deduct just they would get an increased spawn time or some other penalty which would make near impossible for an admin to kick a person that punished him.

You wrote the book on being intolerant of others and their views. This temper tantrum speaks for itself David. Have a nice day.

Also what's your fixation with homosexuality? Repressing something?