Feedback for v0.7 aircraft

BetterDeadThanRed · Post by **BetterDeadThanRed** » 2007-08-14 23:30

Pick one, if I said F would that make you feel better?

Post by **eggman** » 2007-08-15 06:51

Good feedback. v0.6 was the first release we really did anything with jets at all. AA and SA missiles are obviously needing to be fixed.. same with the AA cannons and such.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-08-15 08:46

TBH I'd like to see all of the PR air-efforts spent on making the Attack helos as realistic as possible(can they get any better?) and foregoing jets...I don't think we have maps big enough for them to function realistically...at least the fighter jets. But hey they are here and taking them away might rub some of the gloss off of the mod...just my .02 at 2am.

Post by **M.J.Patterson** » 2007-08-15 09:12

BetterDeadThanRed wrote:Pick one, if I said F would that make you feel better?

If you think he's wasting your time and effort which I think he is.. just hit the ignore button.

Interesting ideas.

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-08-15 09:23

VipersGhost wrote:TBH I'd like to see all of the PR air-efforts spent on making the Attack helos as realistic as possible(can they get any better?) and foregoing jets...I don't think we have maps big enough for them to function realistically...at least the fighter jets. But hey they are here and taking them away might rub some of the gloss off of the mod...just my .02 at 2am.

QFT

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-08-15 14:00

BetterDeadThanRed wrote:Considering how the IDS was listed in the wiki as being "in the works" I thought I had some ground to stand on. And cmon, what is the RAF going to consist of without the IDS? The Harrier is hardly a worthy adversary for a monster like the frogfoot.

Anything else before we stagnate on the two seater jets?

2 Seat fighter bombers will only appear on the theoretically possible 8x8km maps (double the size of Kashan). And even if those maps are possible, its still not 100% that they'll be featured.

Also, you think the Brits have it bad with the Harrier. That carries an armament of missile, rockets and bombs. Maybe not as much as an A10 or Su-25, but still fairly hefty and very capable in its role.

The PLA will be depending on the fearsome beast that is the Q-5 "Fantan". In the current BF2/PR incarnation it carries an armament consisting of 4 bombs and 200 rounds of 23mm for its cannons. Thats it. In reality it can carry a range of armaments, such as cluster bombers, LGBs, a range of rockets, air to air missiles and durandal anti-runway bombs.

Like the RAF, the PLAAF has a multitude of 2 seat fighter bombers such as the JH-7 and Su-30MKK, but they won't be using them in PR.

Its a faction limitation, adapt to and overcome it.

Farks · Post by **Farks** » 2007-08-15 14:33

About CAS; Is it possible to code ricochets from the aircrafts gun and maybe splitter from bombs? In real life, pilots don't fly below 200 - 100 meters during a CAS- run because of the risks from getting hit by their own ricochets. At least that's how it is in the swedish airforce. Might be different in USAF/RAF/other airforces, since they are using other types of aircraft.

BetterDeadThanRed · Post by **BetterDeadThanRed** » 2007-08-15 15:27

Ricochets are not possible as far as I know but the tactic of swooping in and grazing the top of the tank is something that should not be encouraged. Again, I differ to my previous suggestion of adding a zoom.

billdan · Post by **billdan** » 2007-08-15 16:20

god i hate your avatar...
worst movie ever

wouldnt 8x8km=64 square km be 4 times larger than 4x4km=16 square km (kashan)?

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-08-15 16:43

well, quadruple the actual area, yes, but double the length and width. You know what I meant.

Oh, I remember the days when having an entire game that was 15 square km was impressive...

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2007-08-15 20:33

Ok Look, the F-16 has a turn radius of 150m at 1500 whateverffedupspeedunitsbf2uses. I tested it using an attack order placed in the middle of the map. A turn radius of 1 Km would be closer to reality. And "yes" the speed of the plane affects turn radius. But, even at corner speed the F-16 cannot turn 180 inside a football stadium. The Mig has a turn radius of 50m! Like seriously, if planes could withstand that kind of physics defying without their wings and/or ordinance being pulled off, we probably wouldn't need to spend $1000000 on computer systems to keep the plane from being asked an impossible maneuver. But, lets look at the G forces of induced on the airframe.

Lets say that the F-16 is at corner speed (350kts). Corner speed at BF2 is at max level speed so we'll just use that, not to mention that the PR planes go a good deal faster than their RL counterparts, so if anything I've understated the G effects. The plane could be going at stall speed and you'd still be over the limit of human and some mechanical limits.

Skip
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A=V^2/r

A being acceleration. 350 kts = 179.86111111111111 m/s

ok so

A = 179.86111111111111^2/150 = 216 (rounded 179.86 to 180)

A = 216/9.81 = 22.01 Gs

... What?

...The max a human can withstand is 9.

No wonder missiles can't hit anything!

So if I weigh 180 lbs, I would now weigh 22x180 = 3960lbs

An Aim-120 would now weigh. 22x335 = 72360lbs

The bomb launch rack on an F-16 can withstand 500lb (bomb)x5.5Gs = 2750lbs (5.5Gs is the max told to pilots or the ordinance would fall off).

And I didn't even mention the fact that 4th gen planes can usually sustain high g turns for a few seconds to a minute, while PR planes are under that 22 Gs basically the whole game.

Read ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if PR planes G forces were translated then...

1. Your pilot would be pushed through the seat and have his manhood destroyed.

2. The lift surfaces attached to the plane would be ripped off.

3. The ordinance would be ripped off of their racks. (Which coincidentally happen to be placed on the lifting surfaces).

4. Wouldn't need AA anymore because planes would explode from having their engines pulled through the bottom of their fuselage.

So, unless you want to animate all of these things, why not just reduce the thrust of the engines and increase the mass of the plane? But seriously if there wasn't enough time for the Devs to do this thing I did in 15 minutes then the planes really could have waited until 0.7. You could even take the more arcadey approach and just scale the speed back by a factor of like 3 or something, but people seem to want fast jets.

*Note the MiG-29 has about 1/3 the turn radius and 3/5 more speed than the F-16 ingame. I didn't even bother with that one.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-08-15 20:39

So if you go out of bounds you is fooked?

Post by **MAINERROR** » 2007-08-15 21:11

totally agree with caboose.

@ caboose. One question, whats the G-limitation from a AIM-120? Isnt it about 20+ G?

BetterDeadThanRed · Post by **BetterDeadThanRed** » 2007-08-15 23:59

Excellent post Caboose, thats what I wanted this thread to be about.

As far as the G limit of an AIM-120, its got to be high as they accelerate very fast and turn fast as well. They are supposed to be able to out maneuver and catch up to a jet trying to avoid them you know.

TF6049 · Post by **TF6049** » 2007-08-16 00:17

Agree with the missiles. Even primitive radar-guided missiles like the AIM-7 Sparrow (used in Vietnam) could hit targets @ 20 miles plus.

TF6049 · Post by **TF6049** » 2007-08-16 00:19

No. All he is saying is that he wants some realistic G-effects. When you do a turn to hard, you black out. Even with G-suits.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-08-16 00:21

Missiles account for the velocity of the target, and guide themselves into the path of the target, so to say.

Bodybag2224 · Post by **Bodybag2224** » 2007-08-16 00:22

Ignore post please

Bodybag2224 · Post by **Bodybag2224** » 2007-08-16 00:24

TF6049 wrote:Agree with the missiles. Even primitive radar-guided missiles like the AIM-7 Sparrow (used in Vietnam) could hit targets @ 20 miles plus.

That is though when they could get the little buggers to actually track something, and not just release and then turn into a Sparrow bomb.