Increase Respawn Times - Next open beta

[Outlawz7]

For regular games, increasing the TK penalty would be the best, as we are still seeing a lot of that. Also, if you are guilty of TKing in that round i would say that ALL special kits should be banned from that player until the next round. Basically they need to learn to be a rifleman until they get given a heavy AT or a tank gunner or an army pilot

Can already see 10 people jump in front of my vehicle, so I cant drive it anymore for the rest of the round.

[mammikoura]

has anyone calculated his complete "time of waiting" while beeing dead in PR... i guess no one wants to increase the time-punish after that calculation

total time no, but maybe we should count like how many minutes a day.
So far for me
1h played (+/- 5 minutes)
0 seconds waiting while dead

(I was a sniper, and then when I finally got killed I disconnected)
I'll try to remember to count if I play again today, if not then I'll try to do it tomorrow.

[Brummy]

I've always said that realism has to be the focus of the game but BF2 is fundamentally a respawning game. 30 secs i feel is fine as a baseline, there are probably other ways to change the feel outside respawn times.

For regular games, increasing the TK penalty would be the best, as we are still seeing a lot of that. Also, if you are guilty of TKing in that round i would say that ALL special kits should be banned from that player until the next round. Basically they need to learn to be a rifleman until they get given a heavy AT or a tank gunner or an army pilot. TKing in a round whether forgiven or not, should prevent players from being a commander and if the above kit penalty was implemented officers too.

I have often considered a "Game-Mode" that could be possible as a "no-respawn" mode.
In otherwords counterstrike style mode. Not all BF2 games should be like that, but some could be perhaps if this game mode had some accompanying maps too, suiting that mode as in many ways the current maps do not.

I would suggest perhaps this "no-respawn" mode to accompany an "objective" or "destroy-mission" type of game-mode, at least as an option.

No! If I warn people there are mines, and they are on an enemy position, and it is completely their fault, I get the punish? And not only with mines, way more things than that.

[Wasteland]

Yeah, I always have people drive over my mines and then punish me, even though the mines are in the middle of the road. Unless there's a way to tweak what gets counted as a TK, don't add any more TK penalties.

Regarding the original idea, I agree with VipersGhost.

In games of ArmA with my new clan (sorry RGG), we play almost exclusively co-op, non-EVO games. Which means that in most cases, when you die you're just dead until the end of the round, which could be 30 minutes later. With that kind of penalty hanging over your head, you play *drastically* different from the way you do in PR. You would *never* run across a field, for instance, without sprinting from cover to cover and having people in *very* effective overwatch positions. If you're not moving in formations and following a strict chain of command, you get killed, and then fed up, and you leave the server.

I don't want to see PR quite this hardcore, as I still play it for more arcade-style gaming, and get my realism from ArmA. Plus without weapon sway you get a lot of ridiculous snipage which kind of throws a wrench into the realism of the game. But I would like to see PR's gameplay get a *little* more realistic, and I think a one minute spawn time would help with that.

[mammikoura]

Btw:
has anyone calculated his complete "time of waiting" while beeing dead in PR... i guess no one wants to increase the time-punish after that calculation

okay, now after a total of 1h and 30min of playing I have 6 deaths. 2 on one round and 4 on another. So that would make 31+32+31+32+33+33, right?
So a total of 193 seconds = 3 minutes and 13 seconds. So that would be about 1 min per 30mins of playing. So today I spent 1/30 of the time I was playing waiting because I was dead.
Now that might be a little less than what I do on average since the sniping round went pretty much perfectly for me. The later rounds though were pretty much just me getting killed over and over again.

But in any case, I think that even with 1 minute spawn times that wouldn't have been so bad. Waiting around 6½ minutes during a gaming session of 1h and 30min.

And just for fun I'll also see how much waiting time the +3 instead of +1 would have caused.
So 33+36+33+36+39+42 = 219. -> 3min and 39 seconds.
As I said earlier, if you don't die often this method of increased spawn time wouldn't really bother you. But if you die 30 times in a round, then it would definitely give you a long spawn time, giving you time to think what you did wrong.
So that's why I think this is better, doesn't punish you for every death, but does punish you if you constantly get killed.

[nicoX]

There is an active discussion about making PR less run-n-gun and make it less of a spawn-in-and-die spamfest in the dev forums. Without increasing spawn times.

I figure the discussion is to keep the spawntime to 30 but let the player have a longer way back from where he died from. I rather run an extra minute be on an alert feel that I am in game than do nothing for one minute. OK maybe singing "Yakkity Yak".

[pasfreak]

I'd just like to have something to do while I die

besides, if you increase spawn times, aren't there going to be a lot less people fighting, as half of everyone on the server at a given time will be dead?

IRL, how long does it take to get reinforcements to the battle? maybe the spawn times should be that time divided by the amount of people usually on a given server?

say 15 min. divided by 30 people

or 20 min divided by 30 people

maybe 30 min divided by 40 people.

in the range of 30 to 45 second spawn times?

is it possible to make spawn times vary on how many people are fighting on your team?

[Desertfox]

The thing is, if you increase spawn times people still won't care. They will just minimize for the minute spawn time.

[VipersGhost]

The thing is, if you increase spawn times people still won't care. They will just minimize for the minute spawn time.

You think it will still be the same? Its definitely possible, the community here is pretty mature though, I'd like to think it'd improve. I do agree with the guys though that said they would rather be doing something like running there from a further place. As far as stuff to do whilst dead, use the death cam like CS has and watch the other guys fight. It starts after your critical counter runs out. Hit the "C" button and you can watch the action.

[101 bassdrive]

I agree with viperghost.
and I agree with tom@field.

seriously, the game has to reward people who stay alive and help their team.
the game mechanics have to punish the people who dont. ( -1 ticket los)
we need punishment, yes. but we need rewards aswell. ( the game has none so far)

think this stuff through now with the PR experience you got:
if the spawntime increases will it make people more carefull. true? guess so.
does it give an advantage to people who stay alive? no.

therefore people who stay alive, as a reward, for a certain time should get shorter spawntimes.
same with assets.. its just fair that the team who has used a helo/tank/apc 2min gets longer spawntimes as the one who used it 20min.

but does this give an advantage to people who stay alive? no. the tempo, in order to get those low spawntime, stays slow. thats the point.
because as soon as you run'n'gun your spawntime is back up to 1-2 minutes. ( yours, not the one of the assets)

which means staying alive and covering eachother, reviving eachother, helping eachother, working together as a team truely becomes crucial and gets the value it deserves.
imo, with the spawnwaves on kashan youve headed for the right direction, with vehicles atleast.. more stuff for people who keep assets up. for example 2 honestly deserved bombers to those who play counsciously.

thx tom@field for bringing it up again.. cmon DEVs, unlimited spawns, be this from RP, APC ( will be removed I gladly heared) and all other spawnpoints is purely
unrealistic.
in 0.6 we fight for destructure of these spawnpoints, not their bleed out i.e. killing all people in that squad ( RL squad consists of about 8- 12 soldiers). we cant clear flanks untill weve destroyed a vehicle or bunch of bags.
limiting their spawns would prevent a even harsher option, meaning limiting the total spawns you have.

darkpowder.. sorry but I dont like what I hear there. TK happen. its just that way.
as long as we dont get hand signs, or yelling codewords, something like that.. they will happen. a punishment right away no matter if intentional or accidental will just be offputting.
its to shortsighted.
and sorry to say so, but it fits into the rather annoying punishment structure that PR has.. no gradiants. either youre alright or youll get the full wrath punishment no matter what caused your malfunction.
if that has to come, how about if that punishment sets in from 3 punished TK or so.
even if that particular player would be kicked of the server ( server side code), it would force him to the riflemen or medic kit.

force players into behaving and acting accordingly, into adapting, into experiencing, into enjoying this mindblowing mod.
and give them a cookie when doing so.

[El_Vikingo]

Get yourselfs a guitar, and practice while dead.

[Danthesandman]

I have often considered a "Game-Mode" that could be possible as a "no-respawn" mode.
In otherwords counterstrike style mode. Not all BF2 games should be like that, but some could be perhaps if this game mode had some accompanying maps too, suiting that mode as in many ways the current maps do not.

I would suggest perhaps this "no-respawn" mode to accompany an "objective" or "destroy-mission" type of game-mode, at least as an option.

? where were u when i suggested that. Ive always thought that would be really good. no more unlimited infintry coming from no where. or even maybe see if they cant bring in lives. ya i know its old but it could work. they isnt enough spots in a server for a good sized army but a couple of lives would make it interesting. (although near the end of a round Jehad jeeps would come out of everywhere). the maps could be done on the max of 3 flags but still make it a large map. 2 mains and the middle or have defend and attack. see how long a team can hold their flag? could call this game mode True PR?

[Outlawz7]

I'd like to see a mode, where Marksman and Sniper kits are not avaiable, so I dont spend the entire game starring at spawn screen, because I keep getting sniped by some lone wolfing punk

[mammikoura]

while rewarding players who stay alive long does sound like a nice idea, I think it's not the right way to go. You just got yourself killed. KILLED. So now because you stayed alive for 15mins before that it's ok, you will spawn back in like 15 seconds? Getting 5 bullets into yourself should never be something that is ok.

I really hate how getting killed isn't anything that horrible. Come on, if it would be the game would be so much different. Suppressive fire would actually work, very few would be lone wolfing, snipers would be something you would never try to engage from a long range, instead you would just get to a safe location ASAP. You would very rarely run straight at a tank with a c4 in your hand etc.
So to be honest even if you make the spawn time 3 minutes I won't mind. You just got killed, as long as we are trying to make a pretty realistic mod getting killed should be the worst thing you can possibly do.

[VipersGhost]

Objective based games with "lives" sounds like fun. I wouldn't mind if 90% of the maps were designed that way and rounds switched sides at the end to prevent constant long loads. Rainbow Six style...I like it.

[Outlawz7]

And snipers dont request the kit, run to the jeep, drive across the map alone and lay down on a hill and try to kill as much enemy as possible, while giving their team no info on enemy movement...

[VipersGhost]

while rewarding players who stay alive long does sound like a nice idea, I think it's not the right way to go. You just got yourself killed. KILLED. So now because you stayed alive for 15mins before that it's ok, you will spawn back in like 15 seconds? Getting 5 bullets into yourself should never be something that is ok.

I really hate how getting killed isn't anything that horrible. Come on, if it would be the game would be so much different. Suppressive fire would actually work, very few would be lone wolfing, snipers would be something you would never try to engage from a long range, instead you would just get to a safe location ASAP. You would very rarely run straight at a tank with a c4 in your hand etc.
So to be honest even if you make the spawn time 3 minutes I won't mind. You just got killed, as long as we are trying to make a pretty realistic mod getting killed should be the worst thing you can possibly do.

Its not the popular side but I feel the same way.

[mammikoura]

I'd like to see a mode, where Marksman and Sniper kits are not avaiable, so I dont spend the entire game starring at spawn screen, because I keep getting sniped by some lone wolfing punk

if you get sniped constantly by the same guy or a few guys then you are doing somethign wrong. Either just don't go anywhere near him, always stay behind cover or then just to try flank him.
If options 2 and 3 don't work then he is just damn good, in which case it might just be best to go somewhere where he isn't.

And I'm sure you could make the same argument about everything. For example it's annoying to be advancing and when you go around a corner a tank/apc is there. But they are a part of the game and they are by no means something that is impossible to defeat.

[M.J.Patterson]

Sounds like its time to get rid of the mobile rally points and mobile bunkers and firebases.. also known as squad leader spawning and apc spawning.

[DJJ-Terror]

I think making things this way would be smart move:

1. spawns are only at:
- main base,
- commander bult bunkers and firebases and
- squad requested jeep
(one that SL can request every 5 minutes in your side controlled areas via air drop. this jeep has 6 seats and it shud be spawnable only by that squad),
- no more rally points, SL spawning and global APC spawning.

2. respawn timer shud be 30 seconds + penalty time.
Now, penalty time shud be +5sec. for every time you get killed but every time you achieve flag/area capture or destroy marked objective your penality time are wiped out clean and you'r back at 30s. respawn.

This way if you play smart and contribute to teams efforts you'll be at normal respawn ranges (between 30s. to 1 minute) but if you play like a fool than you better set your camping tent in limbo.

My 0.02$

Cheers!