How realistic is the Anti Tank class?

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-12-05 22:02

Suicide Commando wrote:antitank assaultman

GI Joe's lost cousin?

YoJimbO · Post by **YoJimbO** » 2005-12-05 22:20

Fair enough - the guy's got a sidearm. But you have to think of this from the gameplay aspect also. Having something like the M4 with the AT kit would make it overwhelmingly overpowered... In a way, Vanilla BF2 had this one on the spot, by adding the MP5, sort of a mid-way compramise... This is a tricky one, I was AT about an hour ago, I must say I was having no problems whatsoever, so long as you stick with your squad (which is what PR is all about), the you're fine.

Just make sure there are some Support guys around. (and with the fixed Support kit, you're pretty much guaranteed there will be)

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-12-05 22:31

'[R-PUB wrote:YoJimbO']Fair enough - the guy's got a sidearm. But you have to think of this from the gameplay aspect also. Having something like the M4 with the AT kit would make it overwhelmingly overpowered...

Not really, if you think on it. The AT could for example have less mags and less skill with the rifle (less accurate, more recoil).

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2005-12-05 23:19

Without tottally revamping all the classes, the current AT kit is a pretty realistic and balanced kit.

tottally revamped, the AT guy would have and M4 or M16 with not much ammo and an AT4 OR the other option would be a SMAW with a pistol. Also, i think kit limitations, or squad specific ratios or something would have to be implemented to keep it so only a few guys have the AT rockets.

Suicide Commando · Post by **Suicide Commando** » 2005-12-06 00:12

'[R-PUB wrote:YoJimbO']Fair enough - the guy's got a sidearm. But you have to think of this from the gameplay aspect also. Having something like the M4 with the AT kit would make it overwhelmingly overpowered...

How so? Spec Opps have loads of C4 and Medics can keep healing themselves, I see no reason why an AT class can't have an M4 or M16. Its simply insane to send a soldier into a hostile situation with only a pistol to fight insurgents whether he's in a team or not.

YoJimbO · Post by **YoJimbO** » 2005-12-06 00:33

Suicide Commando wrote:How so? Spec Opps have loads of C4 and Medics can keep healing themselves, I see no reason why an AT class can't have an M4 or M16. Its simply insane to send a soldier into a hostile situation with only a pistol to fight insurgents whether he's in a team or not.

Did you just ignore the "Vanilla BF2 had this one on the spot, by adding the MP5, sort of a mid-way compramise..." part? At least the Special Ops guys have to run to the target with / pre-lay the the C4...

I agree - a pistol is not enough protection let alone Offence, however along with the AT rockets (which some people use against infantry), which can take out Humvees, Vodniks, & Buggies in 1 shot, adding an M4 or an M16 would be overkill.

Beckwith · Post by **Beckwith** » 2005-12-06 00:42

Suicide in the first pic you showed it doesnt even look like hes carrying an AT weapon, so if he isnt carrying one it wouldnt suprise me hed be carrying a rifle.

In the second pic the guy is using a LAW variant NOT the weapon of a DEDICATED AT man, its a single shot disposable weapons used for bunkers more than anything.

If we went by the logic of your pics you'd only get 1 AT4 or LAW round

USAF-Marshall · Post by **USAF-Marshall** » 2005-12-06 01:15

Suicide Commando wrote:Is that a joke? If you ever come across anyone who can work as a team and actually support the AT class soldiers then please let me know.

I fail to see how a soldier can be sent in to battle without some sort of defensive weapon other than a pistol. At class in BF2 is pretty much suicide once you've used up your AT ammo since nobody is going to support you and even if they do you're not much use with only a pistol.

The AT class isnt made for rush in combat, they serve a support role, that is why they get a pistol and the AT rockets. The pistols is made to be a last resort thing. Just make sure to save a bullet for yourself

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-12-06 01:41

Suicide Commando wrote:See this link and the info next to it...http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.n ... 0511209304 or look down

That website talks about antitank assaultman a lot, thats what I would like to see in PR

Anti-tank assaultman is the Marine MOS title for a SMAW and Javelin gunner and his assistant gunner, who helps load the weapon, spots targets and carries a rifle for local security. The photos you posted are probably of assistant gunners, since neither is carrying a SMAW or Javelin launcher, or of gunners who are not carrying their SMAW/Javelin because there isn't a hard-target present and the unit needs more riflemen.

Now, the assault class in BF2 would be called a rifleman or grenadier in real life. A few riflemen in each squad may carry a disposable, single-shot light anti-tank weapon like the Marine in the second photo, but it is not the weapon for a dedicated anti-tank gunner. In PR, the rifleman classes will have a single-use LAW (of a type appropriate to their faction) as a secondary weapon option, but the anti-armor class is NOT going to have a rifle, since that is what is realistic.

This is taken from the Intro to MOS 0351 (Anti-Tank Assaultman) student handout published by the USMC School of Infantry at Camp Lejeune, which can be found here

c. Equipment Organic to the Assault Section. In addition to the personal equipment and mission essential load that an Assault man may have to carry, there are specific items that can also be assigned to that individual.

(1) Section Leader. The section leader is equipped with:

(a) One lensatic compass.

(b) Technical Manual number 08673A-10/1.

(c) Binoculars.

(d) M-7 or M-9 Bayonet.

(e) M16A2 rifle.

(2) Gunners. Each of the six SMAW gunners within the section will be equipped with:

(a) Telescopic sight.

(b) MK153 SMAW.

(c) Two SMAW rockets.

(d) M9 9mm pistol.

(e) K-bar.

(3) A-Gunners. Each of the six A-gunners/ammo men will be equipped with:

(a) Two SMAW rockets.

(b) M16A2 rifle.

(c) M-7 or M-9 bayonet.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2005-12-06 03:01

How about a few random people (one per squad) will spawn with an AT4 or SRAW?

Nevermore · Post by **Nevermore** » 2005-12-06 04:56

id rather NOT be the sucker that gets stuck with the AT loadout, and im sure anyone whos played on my team would attest, that i'm truley NOT the guy that should be stuck with having the burden of trying to kill a tank with the "giant slow moving projectile OMG HERE I AM SHOOT ME, beacon of death" weapon

i rather like choosing my own loadout and not being auto forced into one by the server or game, the fact that i cant choose every aspect of my loadout is limit enough for me.

i am however, not at all opposed to having HOW MANY people per side can take a certain loadout, there is no need if 32v32 having one side take all AT roles {which would be not only pretty dumb, but altogether funny and sad at the same time}

??:

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-12-06 05:12

Beacon of death....

Love it!

Realistically, in a squad, the guy designated for the Anti-Tank launcher generally has nothing more than a pistol, knife and some supplies that fit in the pouches on his uniform.

If he's designated to do that one thing he would not be carrying any other type of weapon.

Also, generally speaking, Anti-Tank personell RARELY get close to fire fights in real life.

So how realistic is it as of right now you ask? Given the circumstances, it's about 50% realistic.

The 50% that's not realistic is the AT weapon itself...

Suicide Commando · Post by **Suicide Commando** » 2005-12-06 14:48

Well all I can say is when you depend on me to take out that tank which has you pinned down I wont be there. There's no way i'm playing as the AT class unless 1) People are forced to work in squads properly 2) People learn to work in squads properly 3) I join a clan or 4) The AT class is given more than a pee shooter, a stabby bit of metal and a "Beacon of death"!

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2005-12-06 18:26

Eddie Baker i <3 you!!!

suicide, seriously man play some more prmm! when i play AT class in prmm i am getting kills all the time.

its very useful against enemy jeeps, as the 50 cal on them are actually BRUTALLY effective now, taking out jeeps has become a very important role. before they were simply soft quick transports that you would want to get the fuck out of as soon as you hada chance, but now, a gunner/driver combo makes them quite lethal to infantry, especially at range in the open.

i love the decision to give AT class just the pistol, i love playing the class now, its very effective at what it does and a key role in any squad.

to be honest i never used the mp5 in vanilla, i would rather just snipe from a distance with the at rocket and use the pistol at medium range (SOMEHOW more accurate than the mp5 lol) and yes, rocket sniping is incredibly lame, but so is most of bf2 vanilla.

ALSO: Very happy about all the news Eddie has spewed about the future changes!!!
so far we have determined we are getting:

Riflemen!
AT4/LAW!!!
Possible selectable kits with alternative loadouts!
SMAW!

This post just makes me smile, you guys are on the way to becoming the ultimate mod!

rsgx · Post by **rsgx** » 2005-12-07 00:03

Giving the AT class the pistol wasn't all bad, as PRMM makes it much easier to take out armor and vehicles, but once the vehicles are gone, the kit becomes useless. I think giving it the M4 wouldn't be a bad idea, especially because it is not as effective in PRMM as it is in BF2.

johnson26thmeu · Post by **johnson26thmeu** » 2006-01-09 05:07

If you look at this picture, you can see the guy with the weapon on his back, and he is a Marine, now lets get reality into this, NO AT GUY IN THE MARINE CORPS GOES OUT WITHOUT A M-16. Its plain stupid and its simple, anti tank are for use of Armor only, so having the anti-tank with no m-16 is pointless. Every Marine is a rifleman and he should be equipped with a M-16..

Post by **JS.Fortnight.A** » 2006-01-09 05:13

As stated on page 1 of this thread, heavy AT crewmen do not carry a rifle. They do have a pistol as depicted in PRMM. AT4 and LAWs (as your image depicts shows a light version of AT) therefore they carry a rifle. Until the inclusion of lighter AT units, we will stand by the real standard set forth that heavy AT units do not go into combat with a rifle because they already have enough to lug around. Don't shoot the messenger, we didn't make the rules, we only play by them. Go complain to the military if you feel the urge. Once they change so will we, thats reality

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-01-09 06:14

OK, I was in a Marine Corp Infantry unit for 4 years and also the Weapons platoon. Not once did I see a Gunner carry an M16. Any pics that you find will not change this. A SMAW is used by an assaultman to take out armor and also bunker buster.(depending on the rounds used.) It is true that every Marine is a rifleman.(as in training) But they would have to pick up a dead comrades weapon or get issued it for some special (and strange) reason to actually have a Rifle.

An AT4 is an 84mm bunker buster/anti-light skinned vehicle rocket, that is used once and thrown away. A LAW is an even older bunker buster used in the veitnam era up to today and both are laughable to a tank. These weapons are used to take out machine gun nests and route out heavily fortified infantry from inclosed areas and to take out light skinned vehicles, NOT as an AT weapon.

Just stick next to a support guy and hide from Riflemen. That's what assaultmen do. They don't make their presence known until the AT shot is fired. Then they move swiftly to another covered position. Get used to it or die.

Post by **JS.Fortnight.A** » 2006-01-09 15:54

IRT F.N.G. :

Exactly. Could not have said it better myself. Although I tried, you hit the nail right on the head.

Post by **Hitperson** » 2006-01-09 16:07

Suicide Commando wrote:I spent all night playing, every attempt I made to work as a team failed (although the enemy force appeared to work well together!). Sometimes I found one or two guys who would work together but it doesn't last long. I'm still convinced teamwork only works with clans, I hope PR will force teamwork in the future but for now people just don't get it.

Team work works fine in PR it is the only place where i have actually experienced Teamnwork in BF2.