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Posted: 2007-10-31 20:34
by LeadMagnet
nedlands1 wrote:We (well at least I) are talking about soldiers who are wearing body armor. Most conventional army soldiers, in this mod, are wearing body armor. The lower the muzzle velocity, lighter the round and bigger the cross-sectional area the less penetration. If a round can't penetrate the layers of body armor then it's fragmentation characteristics are useless. I would wager that the more likely a round is to fragment, the better its force dissipated and hence stopped by body armor.
The damage values need to reflect whether round penetrates body armor or not. If a round is slow enough or has enough of the aforementioned attributes to be stopped, then the damage should be low. If however the round penetrates, then the damage should be a great deal more.
What this means for short barreled weapons is similar damage values to their full sized counterparts for short range engagements. However, the damage dropoff threshold should happen at a shorter range, to simulate the lower muzzle velocity taking its toll.
You do realize that the difference in muzzle velocity between an M4 and an M16A4 is only 200-300 fps? Up until 600m the difference will be negligable. As for the body armor itself. China and most likely the fictional MEC would use class 3 with ballistic plates. Those plates shatter after 2-3 hits irl and have to be replaced. Therefore, after a few hits the body armor bonus should not factor into damage anyways.
If you want to be realistic I still stand with my earlier statement. Adjust the accuracy, not the damage.
Posted: 2007-11-01 02:47
by M1126 Stryker
The 5.56x45mm and Chinese 5.8x42mm should not be lagging behind the 7.62x39mm which really is not that great of a cartridge.
Posted: 2008-04-07 03:11
by nedlands1
Updated
Posted: 2008-04-07 04:20
by PRC_Heavy_Z
You guys do realize that there isn't a 85 LMG in game right?
And Also, the marksman (qbu88 ) and the auto-rifleman (QBB95-lsw) use different munitions from the regular QBZ95s. The QBB95 uses a heavier round and has more power than the regular and the marksman/sniper munition is the heaviest of the three and has a large hard steel core at the tip.
I'll try and post up some numbers soon
Posted: 2008-04-07 04:37
by nedlands1
PRC_Heavy_Z wrote:You guys do realize that there isn't a 85 LMG in game right?
And Also, the marksman (qbu88 ) and the auto-rifleman (QBB95-lsw) use different munitions from the regular QBZ95s. The QBB95 uses a heavier round and has more power than the regular and the marksman/sniper munition is the heaviest of the three and has a large hard steel core at the tip.
I'll try and post up some numbers soon
The Type 85 HMG is in the game files (
objects_server_patch.zip/Weapons/Stationary/chhmg_type85). There isn't a Mk12, RPK-74 and a few other weapons on the list either, in-game. I just incorporated every weapon I could find that had a projectile defined in, "
objects_server.zip/Weapons/common/projectiles".
I read about the different rounds for QBU-88 and the QBB-95 and I was going to suggest separating the rounds into two. However there is a difference in the "ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage" modifier for the "580_42" round the QBU-88 uses. Instead of "200", the value is "400" meaning the round starts to lose damage at 400m instead of 200m.
EDIT: Found some typos in the spreadsheet - updating
Posted: 2008-04-07 13:09
by zangoo
i am just wondering if each type of round will do the same damage, or it will be diffrent for each gun due to the diffrence in muzzle velocity.
Posted: 2008-04-07 14:08
by nedlands1
zangoo wrote:i am just wondering if each type of round will do the same damage, or it will be diffrent for each gun due to the diffrence in muzzle velocity.
Projectile damage is calculated by taking the base damage of the projectile and multiplying it by the relevant modifier. The modifier value is different (or can be different) for each source material and destination material interaction. As far as the BF2 is concerned, muzzle velocity (and hence impact velocity) is of no concern to projectile damage. With vehicles it is a different matter altogether. With projectiles, you can change the distance damage starts to drop off (ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage), the distance damage stops dropping off (ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage) and the minimum damage multiplier (ObjectTemplate.minDamage). With these you can approximate the different damages due to various muzzle velocities.
Posted: 2008-04-07 20:18
by SethLive!
why such a big difference between 7.62x51 regular and 7.62x51 sniper ammo?
Posted: 2008-04-07 21:59
by zangoo
[R-CON]nedlands1 wrote:Projectile damage is calculated by taking the base damage of the projectile and multiplying it by the relevant modifier. The modifier value is different (or can be different) for each source material and destination material interaction. As far as the BF2 is concerned, muzzle velocity (and hence impact velocity) is of no concern to projectile damage. With vehicles it is a different matter altogether. With projectiles, you can change the distance damage starts to drop off (ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage), the distance damage stops dropping off (ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage) and the minimum damage multiplier (ObjectTemplate.minDamage). With these you can approximate the different damages due to various muzzle velocities.
oh i understand completly how the bf2 engine does damage, i was just looking at your chart and it looks like the 7.62x51 would do the same damage even if it is fired from two diffrent guns. so i was just wondering if it would stay like that or would you be calculating the correct amount of damage for each gun due to diffrent muzzle velocity.
also what are these damages based off, cus they cant be from energy, so they must be made up.
Posted: 2008-04-07 22:09
by Viper5
Isnt the GPMG a 7.62?
Posted: 2008-04-08 00:53
by nedlands1
zangoo wrote:oh i understand completly how the bf2 engine does damage, i was just looking at your chart and it looks like the 7.62x51 would do the same damage even if it is fired from two diffrent guns. so i was just wondering if it would stay like that or would you be calculating the correct amount of damage for each gun due to diffrent muzzle velocity.
also what are these damages based off, cus they cant be from energy, so they must be made up.
It does the same damage from each gun firing the same ammunition from point blank range. That being said, some weapons, which fire the same ammunition, have a different range where the damage starts to drops off (eg: the QBU-88 vs the QBZ-95 (400m vs 200m) and the L86 vs the L85A2 (400m vs 200m). I haven't included all of this in the spreadsheet yet. With weapons firing the same calibre ammunition at quite a different muzzle velocity there is often a separate projectile type with a lower base damage (eg M4A1, which fires
5.56x45mm NATO (CQB) with a base damage of 35 compared to the M16A4 which fires
5.56x45mm NATO with a higher base damage of 36).
Fixed the GPMG. Thanks for pointing that out Viper5.
Posted: 2008-04-08 01:42
by PRC_Heavy_Z
BC's What are BCs?
I'm no ballistics expert and can't find any hard number that's been officially released
the only site that had decent numbers is now down
Posted: 2008-04-08 02:07
by zangoo
ballistic coeficent, it is a number that tells you how good the bullet can over come the air resistance. higher the less the bullet will slow down in flight.