Project Reality Forums

'[R-DEV wrote:Jaymz;537233']There's a physical setting in the BF2 tweak files actualy called "explosive force". Though if anything, most explosive weapons need less of it. It's absolute stupidity that a grenade ca send a full squad flying into the air.

As I've said before,

Project Reality

directed by John Woo

directed by John Woo?

The Jihad Truck needs more explosive force, definately. It's massive

I see no problem with the devices in PR damaging APC's but not tanks.

So how are we supposed to get rid of the C2, when it's added to Basrah in 0.7, if "no such explosive should damage a tank" ?

Jonny wrote:I think he means noticable damage, like bullets, they damage it but would take thousands to destroy it.

The C2 could be destroyed by RPG + IED + jihad vehicles working together.

Yes, that is what I meant. I don't want to see people running up to a heavy tank and slapping a brick of Semtex or C4 to it, and expect to do a whole lot of damage to it. Unless your IED is a shaped charge, little more than a shockwave and some burnt paint will be the result. It's like tossing an M80 at a huge bull. You're just going to piss it off and be expecting a whole lot of butt-pain.

If you add ANYTHING to a map, you need to have an equal way to counter it. This isn't real life, it's a game. And in order to ensure the game is entertaining for both teams things need to be equal, at least in the chance to win. If you give one side a tank, the other side must fairly have a method to counter it. If you plan to place the Challenger on a map without counter-armor, you need to supply the opposition with AT devices capable of taking it out. C4/IED would not be enough, but combined with other methods such as the suicide vehicles, mines, etc. then it will be fine.

Sounds like Ninja's never heard of Peeling....

Outlawz wrote:So how are we supposed to get rid of the C2, when it's added to Basrah in 0.7, if "no such explosive should damage a tank" ?

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/wip-rpg-29-t30807.html

a IED sends a Abrams tank 30 feet in the air

I only read that such an IED only got an M1 tank to almost tip on its side but righted itself and drove off.

M1 Abrams is 68.5 tons fully combat loaded I believe.

Soulja wrote:Sounds like Ninja's never heard of Peeling....

Seeing as that word has hundreds of definitions, and not everyone here is from the same country, I have no idea what you are referring to.

Do you know what LLDR is? SINGARS? SALUTE? What are the basic elements of an OPORDER? Can you answer those questions without searching the internet?

Please explain your comment further, or at least point out what you are referring to for those of us with varied backgrounds.

I'm trying to keep this thread on topic regarding the original post.

Ninja2dan wrote:Seeing as that word has hundreds of definitions, and not everyone here is from the same country, I have no idea what you are referring to.

Do you know what LLDR is? SINGARS? SALUTE? What are the basic elements of an OPORDER? Can you answer those questions without searching the internet?

Please explain your comment further, or at least point out what you are referring to for those of us with varied backgrounds.

I'm trying to keep this thread on topic regarding the original post.

Peeling is what tankers call it when a force doesn't pierce the armor of a tank but the shockwave actually turns everything inside it into shrapnel including the inner layer of the armor which has been know to "Peel" away shredding the crew.

Also:

LLDR is a rangefinder, or lightweight laser designator rangefinder if i remember right.SINGARS is single channel ground or air radio system and which do you mean? There's a lot of variants to my knowledge. SALUTE is size, activity, location, unit, time, and equipment. And as for the OPORDER you got me there, I don't know much about that, I just fix shit for the guard.

Double tap

These are the approximate protection values for the M1A2's armor when compared to Rolled Homogeneous Armor:
Turret: 940-960 mm
Glacis:560-590 mm
Lower front hull:580-650 mm

M2A2/A3
Glacis: 130 mm
Front turret: 100-110 mm

The weakest area of armor on the M1 is equivalent to more than half a meter of high alloy steel. A few pounds of c4 lying on the side of a tank will have its explosive blast directed away from the vehicle, simply because of the mass and density of the armor. Think of it as a reverse shaped charge-instead of putting a steel casing around the explosive, you put explosive on a steel casing. It would be almost completely useless. Literally, it would only serve to make the tank look cooler so it can be videotaped blowing you to bits. On the other hand, a much lighter skinned vehicle like the Bradley would be much easier to at least disable, but then there is certainly a squad of guys around who are pissed off that their ride is immobile.

In the game the C4 certainly serves to give players a reasonable way of destroying armored targets, but don't think for a minute someone with a handful of C4 is going to blast an MBT to bits and go on his merry way.

Soulja wrote:Peeling is what tankers call it when a force doesn't pierce the armor of a tank but the shockwave actually turns everything inside it into shrapnel including the inner layer of the armor which has been know to "Peel" away shredding the crew.

...as for the OPORDER you got me there, I don't know much about that, I just fix shit for the guard.

What you call "peeling" is what I am used to calling "spalling". As the crewman of an armored vehicle, I am well aware of what spalling can do. But as mentioned above, very very few IED's would have the directional force to actually cause spalling inside an Abrams (or most other MBT). APC's yes, but not heavy armor.

OPORDER is what is known as an Operations Order. It's a battle plan format that relays all necessary information about an operation, and is designed in a set format. In any combat planning, using an OPORDER is vital. I am not sure what other countries use, but our version surely works wonders. You got the others correct, maybe I should have used some other rare terms. I was trying to make a point that not everyone knows all terms and acronyms.

I am not saying that an IED might injure the crew, but it would take such a large IED to do so that it would no longer be deployable in the same fashion as we use now. I think Jonny's suggestion at testing gravity settings out further might improve the physics of some current "bugs", but it will take a LOT of testing and math. My arguement is that the size of the IED's we use in PR is not enough to do much to armor. Use of AT mines, RPG's, ATGM's, etc will be our only real means of man-deployed anti-armor. Just too bad the engine doesn't allow IED's to disable tracks.

Here is a quoted description of spalling as it applies to armor:

In antitank warfare, spalling through mechanical stress is an intended effect of high explosive squash head (HESH) anti-tank shells and of many other munitions which may not be powerful enough to pierce the armor of a target. The relatively soft warhead (containing or made of plastic explosive) flattens against the armor plating on tanks and other armored fighting vehicles and explodes, creating a shock wave that travels through the armor and breaks the softer metal on the inside. The resulting spall is dangerous to crew and equipment, and may result in a partial or complete kill of a vehicle. Many AFVs are equipped with spall liners inside their armour for protection.

Ninja2dan wrote:If you add ANYTHING to a map, you need to have an equal way to counter it. This isn't real life, it's a game. And in order to ensure the game is entertaining for both teams things need to be equal, at least in the chance to win. If you give one side a tank, the other side must fairly have a method to counter it.

Setting the e-penis measuring contest aside for a minute, I'd like to address this point.

There are three levels at which balance can take place.

1) Identical balance: Both sides get matching equipment. So many Vodniks to Hummers, so many T-72s to M-1s, so many Havoks to Cobras, etc. This gets boring, but is how things are usually done in vBF2.

2) Low level asymmetry: Everything on one side can be countered somehow by the other side. This is the idea you've expressed above.

3) Deeper asymmetry: Each side has strategies available to them that cannot be effectively countered by the enemy. Victory will go to the side that forces the battle to be fought on their own terms most effectively.

I think this third system is the best for PR.

i think the same , the opcion 1 seems very bf2ish .

Has anyone even hit on what this is about? It's about the effect of the shockwave on vehicles. THEY SHOULD MOVE, they dont have to fly off into the distance, and im not saying a IED should send a Abrams 30 ft in the air. Im just sick of seeing them do absolutely nothing when blown up, they just sit there.

Use a bigger bomb.

I don't know what the deal is with the explosion animations, maybe one of the devs could chime in here?

Watched an internal video with last few days of guys training to call in fire. They had this dummy tank out in the landscape and when a plane dropped a bomb next to it, the ground rippled and the dummy tank moved sideways like on a wave! It was really surreal. Theres the occassional iffy looking situation that occurs ingame when vehicles get moved. Can't ever figure if a bug to resolve or not and after seeing this video I say let the bug (if it is one) lie. It brings a bit of colour to the game.

Ninja2dan wrote: What are the basic elements of an OPORDER?

Sargeant

Major

Eats

Suger

Cookies!!!

LeggyStarlitz wrote:Sargeant

Major

Eats

Suger

Cookies!!!

LOL, Nice way to remember it.


As far as the force of a blast moving objects, I do agree that it should happen in certain circumstances. The problem is the code, and if it can be done in a realistic manner. Jonny mentioned that altering the G ratio might fix several problems, including allowing vehicles to move up slopes more realistically. I wonder if someone has tested his suggested changes and tried observing objects caught in a blast.

And in the game, do objects behind obstacles still take blast damage? Would taking cover actually work, or is the game so dumb that hiding behind a sandbag wall will still toss your soldier 20 feet?