Project Reality Forums

Waaah_Wah wrote:It doesnt work EXACTLY like in PR, but IRL the T90 has sensors that warn the crew of incoming missiles. And AFAIK they also have a system that confuses wireguided missiles

How does the system detect incoming wireguided missiles? Just asking...

Gyberg wrote:How does the system detect incoming wireguided missiles? Just asking...

I believe alot of modern MBT's have a system to detect incoming missiles, I don't know all of them but I can assume heat from the exhaust of the missiles and several other factors could be picked up with technology of this time.. However those missiles are already incoming and launched. I believe the Heavy AT kit's give off a missile tone before they are even launched which seems unlikely with the wireguided systems. (Atleast they did in BF2.)

Waaah_Wah wrote:And AFAIK they also have a system that confuses wireguided missiles

I don't think there's a way to confuse wire-guided missile.
Unless, of course, a huge scissors eject and cut the wire .



@Cheesygoodness: Yes, both in PR and vBF2 tanks get lock-on warning as soon as you point SRAW/Eryx on them.

OK, done my research to stop any arguements... ready?

Lets start with the H-AT kits themselves the Eryx and the FGM-172 SRAW.
The wire guided system involves an IR light on the rear of the missle which is tracked by the launcher which then detects the missles position and compares it with the centre of the crosshair, fins on the missle then adjust the course accordingly.
The IR light on the rear of the missle will pulse at a certain frequency (probably hundreds of pulses per second) the launcher is also tuned into this frequency, this will stop the launcher getting confused as to what IR signature is its own missle.
The Eryx is capable of firing UP TO 5 missles in 2 minutes

The wire guiding mechanism used on the Eryx is the same in pricniple to those used by the americans on Humvee Mounted TOW missles etc.

FGM-172 SRAW comes in the A and B varients A is the anti tank version that we're interested in (the B type was the bunker buster) this is NOT wire guided it uses an inertial navigation system.
It is also good to note the missle uses the same warhead as the raytheon TOW missle, that could lead to confusion.

Inertial navigation works with a series of gyros, accelerometers, electronic compasses and other motion sensing devices, these sensors detect and calculate the speed and trajectory of the missle and act to keep it on the straight and narrow.
During the prelaunch the operator places his crosshair on the centre of the target (or leads a mobile target) and fires. The systems on board the missle ensure that the missle follows a straight line to a point above the target crosshair whether there is crosswind or any other disturbances.
Now providing you had good aim the missle's Laser and magnetic target sensing systems come into play. The laser system Identifies the leading and trailing edges of the tank (where it starts and where it ends) and the magnetic system detects when it is directly over the top of the target.

Now the SRAW knows where it is it detonates an EFP (explosively formed penetrator) effectively a curved piece of metal, that is liquified from the intense heat of the warhead detonation into a molten jet that effectively sears the the delicate top armour of the tank.

Both H-AT systems are light enough to carry extra ammo (eryx 13kg, SRAW under 10kg) and both have warheads designed to defeat Explosive reactive armour.


Nooow for the T-90 and its Shtora-1 defence system. Shtora has countermeasures for Laser guided missles (apaches hellfires for example). the systems used involve IR smoke grenades, two IR rangefinder/designator scramblers mounted either side of the turret (youve undoubtedly seen them either side of the main gun) and several IR sensors with 360 degrees of coverage.

The system counters pretty much anything that points a laser designator at the tank. Shtora has several modes but essentially can be fully automatic or require the commander to press a button before response.
Once the system detects a laser locked on (being painted) emergency warning lights and sounds alert the crew. Shtora will then deploy its banks of IR smoke and within 1.5-3 seconds the tank will be covered by a complete shroud. The smoke acts to scramble incoming IR locking onto the tank hopefully breaking or degrading the quality of a lock on that a missle has.
Secondly after a missle is detected within 2 seconds the turret will swing around to face the source of the offending missle. On facing the direction of fire the two turret mounted Electro-Optic IR Scramblers (thats what they actually call these things :S) fire IR beams towards the incoming missle.
So now that tank is blanketed in a shield against Laser guidance systems and is firing false Rangefinding signals back at a missle attempting to figure out its position and range etc.
An added benefit of this method is the tank is now aiming directly at what just shot at it. (give or take 3 degrees)

Thats pretty tough to hit with IR missles then

Some folk will say that the IR emitters on the turret can also be used on a wire guided missle (remember the pulsing IR light used at the back of the missle?) The theory is that the IR emitters trick the launcher system into thinking the Shtora IR Emitters are its own missle, therefore it is on target, and therefore no more course adjustment is neccesary, causing the missle to crash into the ground.
A sound Idea in practice, but firstly Shtora needs to lock onto an IR signal to bring the turret to bear on the target, wire-guided = no laser designator. Secondly the IR beacon on the rear of the missle will most certain be coded to a certain frequency as the launcher computer is programmed to only look for the light that is flashing to that frequency it makes scrambling the missle difficult.

You're only bet of a safe defence from Wire-Guided missles is the Arena Active Defence system. Arena uses smart sensors and Radar to detect what is an incoming missle threat. the threat is detected and tracked from 50, down to around 25 metres once detected a warning siren immediately sounds to warn nearby infantry. once the missle is within a few metres Arena fires a shrapnel spray towards the projectile, blasting it to pieces. think of it as having a hillbilly with a shotgun sat atop your T-90 shooting down missles as they fly in.

Arena works in conjunction with Shtora against IR missles from choppers and such


OK so I know not all of you wanted to know that but hey I'm bored, have no life and needed a purpose for this moment in time

(here I get flamed to hell for everything I've gotten wrong lol )

each time i read of the shtora i want that in PR , must be a way to cide it .

great post there sadist !

Hiding behind a hill and then popping up is a good idea and realistic would you stand out in the open and set it up..... wait a minute why do you have to set up at all I mean would you not arm and prepare the missile at base for later use not do it in the field where a tank is after you.

RHYS4190 wrote:Hiding behind a hill and then popping up is a good idea and realistic would you stand out in the open and set it up..... wait a minute why do you have to set up at all I mean would you not arm and prepare the missile at base for later use not do it in the field where a tank is after you.

Because if the missile is armed and your out walking on the field and end up falling on it... Ya explosive a tad bit to close to yourself that is primed and ready to go. Its not the safest way to carry such a thing.

I would LOVE to see the smoke dispensers in the T90 act as flares to incoming missles, or something along them lines.
Even though its not true to life it would bee good if you could throw off a H-AT with the smoke, making experience also neccessary for the H-AT as those who lock on straight away will give the tank a chance to deploy smoke

Basically i love it much more than it is in BF 2 but its a way to "quick" they hide behind any wall camp there and when they reloaded they come back and you dont even saw where they shoot from..

if you cannot understand how HAT can be exploited, ask me about in the server next time im playing and ill show you exactly how to exploit the HAT..

trust me, its very unrealistic way to use it, it basically negates any usefulness of APCs whatsoever, and totally rapes infantry squads that are trying to work together.

All not good elements for gameplay.

We want Heavy AT to be a devastating weapon to armored vehicles, but we also want it to require teamwork and skill on behalf of the HAT user. It should require a decent amount of knowledge of terrain and should have to rely on spotters and teammates to cover you.

Right now you can rambo with the HAT and hardly ever die, racking up tons of kills... not a teamwork kit right now at all, its more like the deathray kit.

How come the H-AT guys get 2 launchers/missiles by the way? From what I've heard here they aren't very heavy considering their size and what they are, but isn't that a pretty cumbersome amount of kit to haul about? How come they don't just get 1 shot and a rifle? Is it a balancing issue?