Project Reality Forums

I think we need to get some research or numbers posted for the Dev's. I'm stuck at work or I'd do it...but if anyone has the real life MOA (minute of angle) deviations for any of the guns in use then put them up. It'll make for some diversity too, I don't think all of the rifleman assault rifles should have the same deviation. Nothing like Chinese=Brits=US. If anything give the brits a little nod to having the extra accurate L85...but I'm sure any of the marines in here will tell that a 2 MOA M16, or less, is probably rare. I'm pretty sure this is easy stuff to edit so it basically comes down to a little research and Q/A and making the right choice of realism.

NOTE: Lol Rico's faster at responding than me...good work brother. Yeah I don't know how we missed the boat on the RL MOA's for previous releases but I think its drastically important for realistic gameplay/tactics that they get in there...these guns for the most part just aren't that accurate.

It's important to remember that MOA is the RADIUS of your pattern. So a 4 MOA M16s' bullet "hits" at a hundred yrds would be 4 inches to the left/right/up/down of where you aimed. Thus making an 8inch diameter pattern. At 200yds it would be double this.

Minute of angle has to do with the diameter of the circle. A rifle that is said to produce a 2 MOA shot group will put all 10 rounds into a 2 inch circle (5.08 cm), at 100 meters. 2 inches (5.08 cm) being the diameter of the circle, not from the center to the edge in one direction, but edge to edge. At 200 meters that same shot pattern turns into a 4 inch shot group and so on and so on. 90% or more of the M16s in the world won't do that. When you add optics it helps some, but it doesn't make the shot group get any smaller. Nothing can do that unless you rebuild the rifle, and that usually means a brand new barrel.

R

The MOA doesn't sink down to 0.6 levels in 0.7 (exception being accurized rifles, DM/Sniper rifles). This is getting really specific and I'm not the one behind the deviation coding but just wait and you'll see.

Jonny wrote:If anyone can find MOAs for all the weapons in PR I would be very impressed, but they should only be roughly similar to lab results, with rebel and INS MOAs worse than reg. armies due to a lack of training.

Nedlands1 already did that. It's in the zip file I uploaded in an earlier post today. It's called weapon deviation.zip


R

Lets also remember that MOA is completely independant of the user. Basically if you took a gun and vised it down perfectly...that gun would still not shoot perfectly due to the nature of guns. A gunsmith can accuratize a gun to improve this but standard M16's don't have a very good MOA...they are mass produced etc. AK47's I presume are worse...its all due to the design and quality of the gun and the "user factor" does not come into play here.

In a perfect PR world, the guns' MOA would be present and THEN the user created deviation due to stance, movement, mental state, health would also be factored in on top of that.

Unfortunately, the biggest factor behind deviation is one we can't accurately model; the person pulling the trigger. I've seen quite a bit in my years in the field, on ranges and in competitions. I could hand the exact rifle to 10 different shooters and get 10 different patterns. The one thing that's always bothered me about the weapons in game is the AK series of rifles. Outside of the old Soviet Bloc you'd be hard pressed to find any standing army that can employ them regularly and achieve better than 4-5 MOA. They are quite capable of sub 2 MOA with the proper stance and technique.

One of the funniest things I've ever seen happened a few years back in Somolia. While providing overwatch on a UN checkpoint I witnessed a tango unload 2 full magazines at the checkpoint without even hitting the bunker 150yds away. He simply held the weapon sideways and went rock'n'roll with both mags bannana clipped together. My spotter and I were laughing so hard we ended up taking photos of the shooter before dropping him with a round in the thigh. (there's a great PS'd copy hanging in the CO's office to this day with the caption "Marine rifle range").

Things to remember guys. The values I gave were the best values possible. In order to attain them you would have to be prone, zoomed, firing one round and perfectly still. The assault rifles are very similar to one another but the G3A3 has extra deviation added after firing, compared with the other weapons.