Distinguishing players upon rank

[Stargun]

distinguishing the enemy can be done by observing. (and since the sniper rifle currently doesn't actually hit anything that's what a sniper should do *sic)

you see 'one' guy and then another guy spawn next to him, then remember the 'one' guy is the squad leader...

Yeah, that's easy. Now imagine not a single guy, but at least three in a bunch, THEN the fourth appears next to them. Can you tell who was the spawn point or not?
Or - in the normal case at the beginning - no one spawns at all, because in the squad everyone are already alive, and they're moving to the target as a group. Or if there's a spawn, but you can't see it, because the the squad leader is hidden behind a building.

But you mentioned one interesting thing: the BIG RED CROSS on the medic's helmet. What's that if not a DISTINGUISHING SIGN? As you told you'll first target the medic - because you can see the red cross (off course you can see the medic's actions as well, like healing and reviving, but these actions are not so trivial in the case of the squad leader).
Buy the way, what if the squad leader is a medic as well? This is not so unreal - in that case the squad leader can heal himself... which is not good, I think.

Someone mentioned the VIP escorting scenario: if the squad leaders would have any distinguishing sign, then all of the squads will have their own VIP to protect!!!

RED HELMETS!?!? I think thats a far stretch.

Off course I don't think that we should use RED helmets, any SLIGHT visual aid would be sufficient (like the red cross ).

Another idea according to the medic and the magic "revives": the "critically damaged" phase should be overrun if someone killed by a headshot. In that case anyone should be instantly killed, without any hope to revive him. It's not so realistic to be shot on the head by an M95, then revived...

Any more suggestions?

[lonelyjew]

I don't think our army ataches real snipers to normal squads as it's kind of a waste of their training. I know that they are what we often use for recon and assasinations. Snipers are true campers, they'll sit in one spot for days on end doing their best to not make any movements just to get a chance for a shot at their mark.

Now in Battlefield 2 they play a much different role. They are the sharpshooters of the squad or quazi campers, but never true snipers. What holds back the sniper class are the rediculous scopes and accuracies of the rifles. Now, if the scopes could zoom in as much as real scopes we could pottentially see true snipers who sit in their cozy spots all game picking of people who aren't paying enough attention to their surroundings(which is good or bad depending on your opinion).

As for the whole "distinguishing squad leaders/commanders" it's already a possible to tell people appart in game. Medics and support gunners are easy enough so I won't go into that and commanders are easy(if you can find them) unless they are active(crappy) commanders. Squad leaders are a little tricky though, but in prrm they are still somewhat easy to tell apart if you wait for a bit because you'll see squadmates spawning around them. Also, in my experiance, in prrm the squad leader is a medic so that he can revive his fallen mates and more importantly, so any of them can pick up his kit and revive him.

[USAF-Marshall]

I don't think our army ataches real snipers to normal squads as it's kind of a waste of their training. I know that they are what we often use for recon and assasinations. Snipers are true campers, they'll sit in one spot for days on end doing their best to not make any movements just to get a chance for a shot at their mark.

Now in Battlefield 2 they play a much different role. They are the sharpshooters of the squad or quazi campers, but never true snipers. What holds back the sniper class are the rediculous scopes and accuracies of the rifles. Now, if the scopes could zoom in as much as real scopes we could pottentially see true snipers who sit in their cozy spots all game picking of people who aren't paying enough attention to their surroundings(which is good or bad depending on your opinion).

As for the whole "distinguishing squad leaders/commanders" it's already a possible to tell people appart in game. Medics and support gunners are easy enough so I won't go into that and commanders are easy(if you can find them) unless they are active(crappy) commanders. Squad leaders are a little tricky though, but in prrm they are still somewhat easy to tell apart if you wait for a bit because you'll see squadmates spawning around them. Also, in my experiance, in prrm the squad leader is a medic so that he can revive his fallen mates and more importantly, so any of them can pick up his kit and revive him.

Your wrong about them not adding snipers to units. They will almost always have a Sniper/Spotter team with them when they are on a mission. They will not be with the squad but in a concealed location directing the movement and being used for Intel reports from the Commander, as well as eliminating any 'Choice Targets' such as Commanders and such.

I agree with having some mark on the Squad Leader and Commander... Maybe something not quite screaming "Shoot me" on it like rank patch on his shoulder. Something that someone (Sniper) would have to be looking for. You dont just carry a big sign on your back in RL that says shoot me, nor are you completely blended. Maybe adding commanding movements: i.e. When you tell a squad to move to a certain location, defend, attack, etc. make it so that the Squad Leader Moves his hands in such a fashion as to show that he is giving commands. As for Commander, maybe add something just as subtle as well as visual to his uniform. I cant count the number of times I have sniped someone next to the Commander because they look the same.

[NikovK]

At the range where we can currently see a friendlie's name tag, I'd like to see a tiny rank insignia instead for friend or foe when looking through sights or scope DIRECTLY on his hitbox, IE, when your rifle is pointing -right at him-, and its hovered there for a second, and you've basically DEFINATELY spotted him. At very close range <10m, I'd like to see the names of friendlies in front of me.

[Stargun]

I agree with having some mark on the Squad Leader and Commander... Maybe something not quite screaming "Shoot me" on it like rank patch on his shoulder. Something that someone (Sniper) would have to be looking for. You dont just carry a big sign on your back in RL that says shoot me, nor are you completely blended. Maybe adding commanding movements: i.e. When you tell a squad to move to a certain location, defend, attack, etc. make it so that the Squad Leader Moves his hands in such a fashion as to show that he is giving commands. As for Commander, maybe add something just as subtle as well as visual to his uniform. I cant count the number of times I have sniped someone next to the Commander because they look the same.

Now it's good to hear that this is a real problem for someone else also.

At the range where we can currently see a friendlie's name tag, I'd like to see a tiny rank insignia instead for friend or foe when looking through sights or scope DIRECTLY on his hitbox, IE, when your rifle is pointing -right at him-, and its hovered there for a second, and you've basically DEFINATELY spotted him. At very close range <10m, I'd like to see the names of friendlies in front of me.

Good idea, but maybe too easy to use. Anyway the foe's have their name tags suppressed right now in PRMM - which is realistic.

[USAF-Marshall]

Now it's good to hear that this is a real problem for someone else also.

The only way I know who a commander is, and this has only happened about 3 times. I will sneak back to their main base, since of course with me 4/10 battles the commander is at front lines fighting (sucks bad), I will camp there and watch who comes and goes. I will watch the one guy who moves very little and has the Engineer class to repair their equipment. Usually he hids behind a dumpster or on a roof so I know that if he doesnt move in 2 minutes... take the shot, he is in the commander view anyway. I also try to stay as close to fighting as I can so I dont alarm him with my little red dot on the scans and ****.

[BrokenArrow]

That's a good sniper right there! USAF Marshall has got it right, if there's any really obvious distinguishing marks for a leader or commander, put them in, otherwise, leave it to observations like Marshall's.

[Stargun]

I will sneak back to their main base, since of course with me 4/10 battles the commander is at front lines fighting (sucks bad), I will camp there and watch who comes and goes. I will watch the one guy who moves very little and has the Engineer class to repair their equipment. Usually he hids behind a dumpster or on a roof so I know that if he doesnt move in 2 minutes... take the shot, he is in the commander view anyway. I also try to stay as close to fighting as I can so I dont alarm him with my little red dot on the scans and ****.

That's really good tactics. But on some servers (at least in Vanilla BF2) everyone judges this tactics as BASE RAPING, not so trivial as going there with an M249, but let's face it, it's a base raping. If you've got good view of the enemy main base AND you made your shot AND took out the commander, then I think you won't wait for the commander to spawn again. In the meantime you can shoot down ANY OTHER soldiers spawning at the main base, and that's what we call base raping. You'll be kicked in no time.

Off course I agree, that having the commander on the front lines is sucks.

What about the idea I already mentioned, when giving different score for shooting different officers? Like getting 2 points for killing a simple infatryman, getting 4 for killing the squad leader (I mean KILLING, which means the medic won't have the opportunity to revive him = a certain headshot), and 6 for taking down the commander.

[F.N.G.]

So, now every soldier carries a pistol and EVERY unit has a sniper with it? What next? Every sniper has their own man-portable-shoulder-fired Artillery gun. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Every Battalion has snipers. BATTALION. Not every platoon. Also check this out for some interesting reading on the differences in snipers and Squad Designated Marksmen. Check this out.

[USAF-Marshall]

That's really good tactics. But on some servers (at least in Vanilla BF2) everyone judges this tactics as BASE RAPING, not so trivial as going there with an M249, but let's face it, it's a base raping. If you've got good view of the enemy main base AND you made your shot AND took out the commander, then I think you won't wait for the commander to spawn again. In the meantime you can shoot down ANY OTHER soldiers spawning at the main base, and that's what we call base raping. You'll be kicked in no time.

Off course I agree, that having the commander on the front lines is sucks.

What about the idea I already mentioned, when giving different score for shooting different officers? Like getting 2 points for killing a simple infatryman, getting 4 for killing the squad leader (I mean KILLING, which means the medic won't have the opportunity to revive him = a certain headshot), and 6 for taking down the commander.

Every server I have ever gone to on Vanilla havent even said a word to me when I pop the commander off. It is when a squad or two moves in with tanks and vehicles that the Admins start to kick. It isnt against rules of war to put a sniper at the enemy HQ... what do you think alot of snipers are doing at this moment around the world?

I bet your one of the noob tubers that run and jump while launching M203 rounds at people.

[BrokenArrow]

Let's not start throwing insults around.

Personally I think that the commander shouldn't even be on the battlefield. That's not very realistic. At least not in the sense that he sits somehwere hiding and looking at a map. The GH server (at least the test) doesn't have a commander and I like that. No artillery, no magic UAVs and you're dependent on fellow squadmates for medical attention and resupply.

If there's going to be a commander, I say give him a special spawn (if possible) that is away from the playable area (somewhere in the out of bounds area) that he can stay and only direct things, no artillery, just ordering people around. I know you won't be able to take him down, but atleast he wont be running around using arty as his own personal weapon.

[Stargun]

Every server I have ever gone to on Vanilla havent even said a word to me when I pop the commander off. It is when a squad or two moves in with tanks and vehicles that the Admins start to kick. It isnt against rules of war to put a sniper at the enemy HQ... what do you think alot of snipers are doing at this moment around the world?

OK, I agree, you're right.

I bet your one of the noob tubers that run and jump while launching M203 rounds at people.

Hmmm. I think I's very bad idea to judge anyone or "bet" without knowing the person. But if you're still interested check out the numbers (Vanilla BF2):http://bf2s.com/player/44094545/ (I hardly use M203 at all )

BTW I HATE those players who use jumps and dolphin dives for dodging the bullets. I personally never use any of these movements in a firefight.

So that's enough, LET'S GET BACK TO THE TOPIC!!!!

Does anyone have comments on the visual aids for the squad leader and the commander to be able to distinguish them from the crowd?

And what about the idea of instant killing? (The squad leader cannot be revived after a headshot, he goes to the killed state skipping the critically injured phase).

[USAF-Marshall]

OK, I agree, you're right.



Hmmm. I think I's very bad idea to judge anyone or "bet" without knowing the person. But if you're still interested check out the numbers (Vanilla BF2):http://bf2s.com/player/44094545/ (I hardly use M203 at all )

BTW I HATE those players who use jumps and dolphin dives for dodging the bullets. I personally never use any of these movements in a firefight.

So that's enough, LET'S GET BACK TO THE TOPIC!!!!

Does anyone have comments on the visual aids for the squad leader and the commander to be able to distinguish them from the crowd?

And what about the idea of instant killing? (The squad leader cannot be revived after a headshot, he goes to the killed state skipping the critically injured phase).

lol yeah, my bad. I just got off vanilla before I posted that and was pissed because I was getting spawn camped by guys with C4 and GP-30's. Never listen to my name calling lol, it is my way of venting from the 12 year old "uber" bunny hoppers. 8D

At least make it so that if they get Critical, it takes a few tries with the Paddles to bring him back, giving the sniper enough time to pull out / or take a shot at the medic/commander. If you get a well placed shot in the field a medic wont run up to you, zap you then run off leaving you perfectly healthy on the ground, he will have to work your health back up. Maybe (off topic) make it so that when you get revived, you start with 1 health bar so the medic also has to patch you up (realistic)

[beta]

And what about the idea of instant killing?

My ideas:

Headshot: straight to "killed" state

Torso (armoured): 3 shots, "killed" state, 2 shots, "critically wounded" state, 1 shot just health damage

Torso (unarmoured): 2 shots "killed" state, 1 shot "critically wounded" state

Legs: 1-2 shots health damage, 3 shots "critically wounded" state, 4 shots "killed" state

Arms: same as legs (or slightly more, wahtever)

*All of these would be bullets from a rifle (5.56, 5.45, at >100m its all the same ...)

Only problem is when you get put into the "critically wounded" state, is there a way to still keep track of damage afterwards so you can adjust the state?

For example, I shoot Unamed Soldier in the torso, he has no body armour, so he becomes critically wounded. I see Unamed Medic near by, not wanting Unamed Medic to heal Unamed Soldier, I shoot Unamed Soldier's "critically wounded" corpse in the torso, this second shot turns the previously "critically wounded" corpse into a "killed" corpse, hence Unamed Medic cannot revive Unamed Soldier.

Now you can change around "killed" and "critically wounded" to whatever you want, as long as one represents being able to be revived, and the other NOT being able to be revived.

Anyways ... back on topic.

The idea of a visual que to distinguish rank in the field is good and all, BUT

1) Shouldn't be able to be seen from any further than 10m (unless magnified by scope or binocs, then maybe like 50m)
2) Would it be the player's rank? The player's class? What the player had for supper? Needs more thought ...
3) How would it be represented? On the actual model, ie: a medic symbol. Or another "popup" like feature, such as the name tags?

It's an interesting idea, theres still problems that need to be worked out however ...

[USAF-Marshall]

Is there any way to impliment some kind of killing shot while someone is critical? I know that when I am critical, if I get hit with C4 or Arty (vanilla) I get killed instantly. Maybe where if you shoot them to a critical state you can put a round through their head to kill them... Just a thought...

[beta]

if I get hit with C4 or Arty (vanilla) I get killed instantly

I got blown up by a M203 round from critical state to killed state in PRMM.

Just don't know if it can be done with bullets and such ...