Project Reality Forums

BloodBane611 wrote:If I were to make a suggestion that would add realism, I would say remove the little bird entirely and replace it with the OH-58 and blackhawks. Since this requires the creation of 2 entirely new models I think it would be totally ridiculous to ask for it, but that would be the most realistic move here. Definitely no need for more firepower on these babies, there is a reason the DEVs put in fewer gunship versions in 0.7.

...and since two new models aren't going to appear out of thin air anytime soon, the LittleBird is what we have to work with.

I have to agree with Blood in sense that the LittleBird has enough firepower in game. It's not meant to be used as a totally devastating "plow-your-way-through-ground-convoys" attack helo, hence it's low armament and armor. It's main role is to scout enemy positions and bust up an armored vehicle or infantryman here or there.

The effectiveness of the AH-6 in game is, in my opinion, superb if operated by a skilled pilot who knows the capabilities/limits of the aircraft.

...and in response to the original poster, mounting a minigun for the co-pilot would simply be unrealistic.

It has two miniguns allready and they are almost totally useless as is the heli in general now it can be shot down with 2 mags of a m16 & is unstable when diving

Its for scout, recon and laser desigination, I think kashan is the only map that might even be possible

MarineSeaknight wrote: ...and in response to the original poster, mounting a minigun for the co-pilot would simply be unrealistic.

eddie wrote:The Loachs were often armed with an M60, occassionally it would be a minigun.

I don't see what's so unrealistic about a door-side machine gun on a LB. However, if not a MG then at least allow the co-pilot to fire his rifle out the side of the bird. If you want a visualization of what I'm talking about here's a pic from the one in AIX:


That minigun could always be replaced by a different gun if you feel that it's "too powerful," although I wouldn't go so far as to say that based on the effectiveness of the current Blackhawk miniguns.

The copilot has a much more powerful weapon than his rifle to fire from the little bird: he has the ability to spot and mark hostile units from a (reasonably) long distance. This allows both the LB pilot and and other friendly units to gain valuable intelligence about enemy positions. If you aren't using this, AKA using your rifle from this position, then you are doing your team a disservice.

Also, what do you expect to hit with your rifle that you don't want to shoot with rockets and miniguns? What the ****?

BloodBane611 wrote:The copilot has a much more powerful weapon than his rifle to fire from the little bird: he has the ability to spot and mark hostile units from a (reasonably) long distance. This allows both the LB pilot and and other friendly units to gain valuable intelligence about enemy positions. If you aren't using this, AKA using your rifle from this position, then you are doing your team a disservice.

Also, what do you expect to hit with your rifle that you don't want to shoot with rockets and miniguns? What the ****?

If you refer to my post prior to my last one, I mention that the co-pilot should be able to retain his ability to spot other targets by switching to the FLIR. The co-pilot side weapon would provide a broader range of fire for the helo in that there would be two directions of simultaneous fire on the aircraft rather than just one. In addition, the primary role of the co-pilot weapon would be a defensive one against hostile ground forces while the bird is in a low hover, providing cover for a MH-6 inserting or extracting friendly infantry perhaps? I see great uses that this change would bring about. Be a little open-minded will ya?

Taken From OH-6A Cayuse / AH-6J Little Bird - Military Aircraft

Armament of the AH-6
2 - M134 7.62-mm 6x barrel, Gatling type twin MG pods
2 - M260 2.75-in Hydra 70 rocket pods (7 or 12 each)
2 - .50 cal MG pods
2 - M75 40-mm grenade launchers
2 - MK19 40-mm grenade launcher
2 - TOW missile pods (2 each)
2 - Hellfire ATGM
2 - Stinger AAM

As this is Project Reality, I believe we should stick to having realistic weapon loadouts. No where does it say a side-mounted minigun.

MarineSeaknight wrote: As this is Project Reality, I believe we should stick to having realistic weapon loadouts. No where does it say a side-mounted minigun.

I'm sure in RL, inventive people recognize the potential of certain things and make do--for instance, is it realistic or "proper loadout" to have a M134 mounted on a Chevy Tahoe? At first it may seem like it's not, but it sure exists...

LiveLeak.com - Black Presidential SUV

Vapor, we are dealing here with what the Armed Forces are currently using. Sure, it might be possible to jury-rig twin miniguns onto your Humvee...but that doesn't mean it's going to be represented in-game.

I dont get this fascination with miniguns. IMHO we are being pampered on the current miniguns far too much. During Operation Anaconda, the miniguns on the Mh-47's jammed when under fire and was useless from that point on as it took a lot of effort to unjam ( I got a feeling you had to have a specialist unjam it) to the point it didnt fire a shot at all.

Current miniguns have too much ammo and are aimed way too easily. Give me a 50 cal or the m240 anytime.

And as plenty of people been saying.. they've not mounted an MG on the side of a loach since Vietnam... and for a good reason. Loaches are used as baits for NVA anti air or troops. That MG is just a security blanket for the crew of the Loach who IMHO get the ugly side of the stick in Hunter/Killer groups. Do you really think it makes a diff putting an MG there?

The only example that can support the OP is how Blackwater runs its Heli operations. I remember a photo where there is a MD-500 with operators standing on each skid with a bungee cord strappe to his back, he either carries a LMG or a Marksmen rifle with him. But thats early in the Iraq conflict so I'd imagine that someone realized the idea doesnt work.

Engineer wrote:Yeah, this is true. However you can only spot efficiently if you are a squad leader / civilian... Unless you can type fast this information to your whole team as most of the people spam now in servers.

You should be able to spot things without being the SL while in the LB co-pilot.

[quote=""'[R-MOD"]dunehunter;591979']Vapor, we are dealing here with what the Armed Forces are currently using. Sure, it might be possible to jury-rig twin miniguns onto your Humvee...but that doesn't mean it's going to be represented in-game.[/quote]

So RL military forces don't jury-rig special weapons to certain vehicles? I highly doubht it. I see plenty of "non-standard" weapons attached to various special forces vehicles as long as they are within reason, which in the case of a minigun on LB is, imo, perfectly within the bounds of reason.

Well at the very least give the co-pilot the ability to switch to his gun and fire out the side of the aircraft. Drop the meat and stick to your celery if you want. So hard to convince you people. Sheesh.

[R-MOD]Bob_Marley wrote:I haven't heard of a door gun on a loach since Vietnam, if there were a TOW armed bird in PR it would be realistic, but at the current time its not so needed due to the armament of the helos.

[quote="eddie""]The Loachs were often armed with an M60, occassionally it would be a minigun.[/quote]

providing cover for a MH-6 inserting or extracting friendly infantry perhaps

If you're on an MH-6 you can switch to the side sets and fire off the bird. So no, that makes no sense.

The only example that can support the OP is how Blackwater runs its Heli operations. I remember a photo where there is a MD-500 with operators standing on each skid with a bungee cord strappe to his back, he either carries a LMG or a Marksmen rifle with him. But thats early in the Iraq conflict so I'd imagine that someone realized the idea doesnt work.

I'm relatively sure that blackwater still uses this tactic for convoy cover and other operations. It allows them to use a transport helicopter as a gunship, and the speed of the MD-500 coupled with 2 SAWs is very effective against personnel and light vehicles. Also, this can easily be done ingame with the MH-6.

So RL military forces don't jury-rig special weapons to certain vehicles? I highly doubht it. I see plenty of "non-standard" weapons attached to various special forces vehicles as long as they are within reason, which in the case of a minigun on LB is, imo, perfectly within the bounds of reason.

Yeah, because what PR is depicting is special forces Even special forces aren't putting M-134s on ****. They're mounting captured DshK machine guns, or Mk 19 GMGs. Also, do you realize and M134 needs not only electrical power but a large amount of ammo? To put that on the side of a little bird would be very challenging, as well as add a lot of weight to an already heavily burdened helo. It doesn't happen in reality, it's not going to happen in PR, because it makes no stinking sense.

BloodBane611 wrote:

I'm relatively sure that blackwater still uses this tactic for convoy cover and other operations. It allows them to use a transport helicopter as a gunship, and the speed of the MD-500 coupled with 2 SAWs is very effective against personnel and light vehicles. Also, this can easily be done ingame with the MH-6.

I am in agreement with this. It would be easy to mod and would be realistic and not "overkill". It would still have the same vulnerabilities from small arms fire, as would its passengers, and yet would allow the Little Bird to provide the support it was meant for.

Make it a 4 seater...1 pilot, 1 co-pilot or 1 passenger with no perks(FLIR) in the front seat, and two rear seats with a saw slung on each side, it could provide cover for a small area, or could be used for half of a squad to secure an area!

That is real world....it would be nice in PR.

I was more suggesting that it is already possible ingame, IE grab two support gunners and blast away. I don't know that I would go so far to suggest adding M249s to the little birds, as I'm against using such a weak chopper for air support.

42 M16 rounds will destroy a LB (something like that), so giving people a reason to be a nice hovering target by adding guns to it is just not a good idea imo. But a good squad can grab some weapons and use it as a mobile gun platform, with a LMG, LAT, and grenade launcher. This can be quite effective, as long as you don't get your butt shot off.

Whatever you meant to "suggest"...I liked the idea that I quoted.
I have seen these configurations used by more than Blackwater. The M249's arent a hard mount...but instead are "slung".
They arent meant to be full on gunships and its a given already they they dont offer protection of any kind.
They are configured for speed and to rain down lead in the form of lethal suppressive defensive fire.

It would have to be employed with finesse. You surely wouldnt be assualting a heavily defended area with possible AA or anywhere where armor or heavy mg's were.
I stand behind it.

If you want something like that, you can already do it. Grab a transport LB, get some Automatic Riflemen, go hunting. Be warned though, it is not very effective.

Ive shot down the pla heli with saw

okay for one thing for those who suggest beeing able to fire a rifle as the co pilot have u ever been able to hit some one with a rifle while the little bird is moving ya you cold have the piolt slow down but why would he do that when he has 2 minigun witch hew can use.....




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