Project Reality Forums

I Agreed whit you're suggestion. Give the M4A1 Acog ( some model just now have FA.) and may be the QD suppressor ( Issued as Standard in US SOF ), some grenade, increase the power of short range 9mm, an helmet and a body armor, also give him the SOFLAM option ( "Need CAS, Need Area Attack, Send laser target now" ) like the SL have.

IMO, Special Ops have to got some better stuff than regular force...they are Special Force or not!?Increasing capabilitie and reduce it to 1 SF on 32 V and 2 SF on 64V. Special Force and Sniper is a SMALL part of an army.

Pain wrote:The kit just needs a grappling hook to simulate the special ability of such units to take alternate routes away from enemy to the target area.

Yeh, couldnt it have more the speciality toys? Like tear gas (or whatever those things you threw in BF2:SF, that makes enemys screens all blurry)... (Don't quote me on this please... for me the Flash things Dont work TRUST ME :lol

Or maybe even (this would be really cool) HEATVISION

And lots of other gizmo's of the sort...

I dont understand why you get wall mines though... they can be effective against light vehicles, but why would you compromise your position JUST for a light vehicle? Also why do they detonate due to a set timer??? I thought (after playing too much SplinterCell ) that wall mines are motion sensitive...

Also the OP sais that the gun can't shoot targets at long range... today I was in my own squad testing this kit on Fools road... I managed to take out a target at 200m or so, this is the weird part, the bullets were completly missing the guy, yet I still managed to kill him? Not one bullet hit him, I shot in single mode every bullet I shot missed (puff of dirt appearing around him) and yet he still died )

So yeh, can be a weird kit at times, but in a usefull sense.

M4A1: make red dot smaller (2-3 MOA dot) or give EOTech/ACOG.
recoil is fine but as mentioned, these guys irl are generally more proficient w/ small arms than line infantrymen.
perhaps slightly less deviation.

I understand the reason for no frags, but do SF irl carry no fragmentation grenades? don't spotters/recon carry frags or even have an M203 attached (spotters are responsible for the team's close-range defense if engaged)? why would the scout sniper get frags while a MARSOC/Force Recon Marine doesn't at least 1 (2 at most)? Are there any soldiers that carry flashbangs yet no frags? Does anyone here with real life experience with special operations have the answer to these questions?

I think that making the kit limited was one of the best "gameplay" decisions made in the making of .7, the kit right now is (as mentioned) available almost all the time, is rarely used to call in airstrikes/JDAM (a good CO would give the JDAM to the front-line SL instead, not the 3-4 man SF squad that is, by correct use of the kit and title, not near the front-line).

All I'm suggesting are the small improvements made to the M4A1 sights/handling mentioned above, and 1-2 frags (replacing very very rarely used signal smoke-->sf kit user usually dies before extraction, if there even is a dedicated heli transport player who would care more about the sf than a line infantry squad). SF would still be at a disadvantage against other classes at longer ranges because of carbine damage/bullet drop, and less body armor. However, at close to med range, the SF soldier should be able to either match up to or defeat other classes. They still will not survive long without operating in 3-4 man squads.

I bet that most people who use the kit will still (attempt to) use it the way the devs imagined: as saboteur and recon. If the current attitude that PR players have towards the "'nilla-12-year-old-smacktard-n00b-who-thinks-he's uber1337 w/his M4A1" persists, any players who use the kit for run-and-gun (and even the teamwork-oriented player who tries to use the kit realistically) will still get kicked out of squads, frowned upon, abused in chat, teabagged, etc...further discouraging the use of the kit as a "contact" kit.

IMO the sniper kit (once fixed) should have its availability reduced to only 1 for 24+ players on the team. The greatest threat to players who tried to correctly use the kit in .6 was the auto-spot feature (I, myself admit to q-spot spamming over the area where shots are heard from-it would work 100% of the time and the sniper's position would be compromised). Now, with this ability removed, snipers stand a lot better chance of taking a shot/doing recon without being marked on the map.

In the depicted world situation of PR, the belligerant countries would no doubt have instituted a draft of able-bodied men; the SF soldier is a volunteer who had wanted to be a member of the most skilled and diciplined force in his country's army/marine corps. Give his loadout some love.

I see where you're coming from, and given that the SOF kit is basically unused, I don't think removing it is a bad idea. But given the very small number (i.e. 1) of real CQB maps, it seems even more useless to change to a demolitions kit. TBH, the "special forces" ideal just doesn't fit into PR: Turning the first person who can grab the kit into a super-soldier would be lame, but to not give them enhanced abilities and firepower is unrealistic. I've defended the SOF kit, although I haven't even touched it since 0.7 has been released, but to be honest it doesn't really seem like it offers a lot to PR. In some situations, with a good team, I imagine that its current incarnation could be quite useful. The rest of the time, well, the nubs can feel good about being able to steal it.

I don't see why the red dot scope was done away with. Just because it is appealing to n00bs isn't reason enough to nerf something. Personally, I didn't mind when all the n00bs used spec opps kit. They were easy to weed out of my squad.

Improved SLAMs for destroying enemy bunkers, grenades and silenced pistol should round it off nicely.

Clypp wrote:Improved SLAMs for destroying enemy bunkers, grenades and silenced pistol should round it off nicely.

Can't really fit grenades into the kit, and theres really no need for it, because:

1) Flashbangs

2) Spotting/Asset killing requires you to stay out of sight generally.

Even with rifleman I rarely use grenades unless the enemy is hiding on a roof, or just sitting behind cover. I agree with improving SLAMs though, they should take out a bunker/fb completely if you ask me. Pistols need a damage boost I think, they're limited by having a low rate of fire, no reason to give them low damage aswell.

Death_dx wrote:Pistols need a damage boost I think, they're limited by having a low rate of fire, no reason to give them low damage aswell.

except that it's a pistol. It shouldn't be as effective as rifles. I think the 5.56mm rifles take 3 shots to kill someone ingame. So pistols have to be like 5 shots. That being said we all know this is a realism mod. IRL you could probably shoot 20 rounds at someones chest with a 9mm pistol and none of those would penetrate his body armor.

SF slams are a boon for when you are infiltrating enemy storage bases and running through slyly placing them on vehicles and choppers in passing.

Boosting the number of Slams from 2 to 3 has made the kit real handy now for destructiveness.

I'd like to see the insurgent IED model and detonator though, so you can get safely out of a base and get some distance before detonating the explosives. When you stir up the hornets nest and haven't got far enough away your players life is measured in seconds as an antagonised enemy is looking in all directions and guns you down before you get the chance to get a hill between you and your handiwork.

mammikoura wrote:except that it's a pistol. It shouldn't be as effective as rifles. I think the 5.56mm rifles take 3 shots to kill someone ingame. So pistols have to be like 5 shots. That being said we all know this is a realism mod. IRL you could probably shoot 20 rounds at someones chest with a 9mm pistol and none of those would penetrate his body armor.

Yeah, my point was that it's barely more effective than the knife so for gameplays sake up the damage since it's got a small clip, low fire rate and is barely a threat.

Interceptor body armor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The vest was tested to stop a 9 mm 124 GR full metal jacket bullet (FMJ) at 1,400 ft/s (426 m/s) with minimal deformation and has a V-50 of roughly 1,525 ft/s (465 m/s). This means that the bullet has to be traveling faster than 1,525 ft/s for it to have more than a 50% chance of breaking through the armor panel.

To sum that up the 9mm has slightly under 50% chance of going through the armour. So that'd be 2-3 bullets to put one in someone's gut.

The use of the special force kit in my opinion. (if it will get a grappling hook)


1) Spotter/Recon

Tools:
- soflam
- hook

Team:
- 2 man team with sniper or marksman

Tactic:
- Use the soflam for spot targets for your teammate or mark targets for jdam/jets.
- You need to cover your teammate against close enemys and he need to take out long range targets.
(hes on point in open field you are on point in urban area)
- with the hook you can get to the best spot to watch a area or set a ambush


2) Saboteur

Tools:
- slam`s
- hook

Team:
- small squad(3+) for cover and ammo at the job

Tactic:
- you should get to your objective undetected from behind
- get your mates in covering pos, then you have to place your slams
- after this you can retreat over a wall or unconventional way with your team and reload your slams to get to the next job

3) Special Forces Assault Team

Tools:
- soflam
- slams
- hook
- cqb gun
- flashs (all)

Team:

- a whole 6 man infantry assault squad with med, autom rifle, sl and a spec ops + any other

tactic:

- the spec ops class give this squad the ability to use as a special forces unit with the advantages of having a 2nd soflam, slams, hook to use alternative routes and 2md flashs...



I think the spec ops never work alone or with a second spec ops, so there is no need to make him to a class which can survive alone on the battlefield...

CAS_117 wrote:...

I have noticed that in both VBF2 and PR, the Aimpoint dot is turned up way too high. Unless you've intentionally cranked it up high due to lots of indoor/outdoor close range stuff, the 4MOA dot shouldn't obscure a torso until somewhere between 200m and 300m, at which point you're aiming over them anyways due to bullet drop. It should also be SHARP, and about half the size it seems now.

As for getting headshots, though... Who seriously runs around aiming at people's heads? Unless you have time for a deliberate shot, you shoot center of mass until they fall down, which usually takes 1 or 2 hits in an actual fight, almost everyone being wounded already.

I have no gripes about the lethality. I've never chosen the kit, but I picked it up a few times when I was out of ammo. First time I shot at anyone, I saw someone at about 80m, shot without knowing it was on FA, and let off a 4 rd burst that killed him immediately. It can't be any worse than the Militia medic subgun, and that thing works fine.

Grappling hook would rock.

Thats the reason why i said the special force kit isnt a standalone kit, it only gives your squad abilitys of special forces units.

The name is correct, it contains tools of special force units and you have to see the whole squad with a spec ops as special force unit then. If the kit will get a hook, all of the squad are now able to take alternate routes with their spec ops in squad (teamwork).

And i gave 3 possibilities to use the spec ops correct in my eyes.

CAS_117 wrote:In real life there isn't a "special forces" kit, or loadout.

In real life there isnt a automatic rifle kit or a engineer kit....

The kits represent the abilities of ppl which are specialy trained to use some equipment or other stuff.

So i think the spec ops kit should get a hook and then the 3 ways to use the kit i told you, are the perfect role for the kit.

In the real world are just special force units and in this game 1 spec ops kit should give your whole unit those special abilities.... So the rest of the team should use other classes to build best team for the current mission... How? look my last post...


p.s. a minimod is the most stupid idea ever, why want splitt the small community?

why split? A community mod project for a few maps with special forces, used on regular PR servers when there are not many players - i wouldnt see a problem with that, besides reminding one of Vanilla.

Add Silenced pistol and Hook. And maybe 1 frag grenade. Leave it as a requestable kit like it is now.

Spec_Operator wrote:why split? A community mod project for a few maps with special forces, used on regular PR servers when there are not many players - i wouldnt see a problem with that, besides reminding one of Vanilla.

Thats not a mod then thats just maps for pr... And a own startable mod would splitt the community.

If you filter 5+ player servers there are just 12-13 populated... I think the kit would bring all into pr whats necessary to give your squad spec ops abilities.