New Hit Effects and Affects

Post by **Happy** » 2006-01-28 04:25

SiN|ScarFace wrote:Dono ive seen head trauma, many broken bones, tackles. Its been my experience you dont scream until you realize the damage. Anyway screaming in a game is bothersome.

I let out a great deal of

when I broke my arm but not right when I broke it(when I tried to move it and it didn't work). And to be useful maybe the guy should scream "Where is my leg?" when a grenade goes off under him or something like that.

{GD}Snake13 · Post by **{GD}Snake13** » 2006-01-28 07:02

I'm sorry to be a nay-sayer but I think the blinking eye effective is 100% unrealistic. human eyes blink at an astonishing speed, we're talking hundreths of a second, and our brain tends to automaticly filter our eyelids out. If this was realistic then we'd all be walking around half blind cause we blink non-stop.

Also trauma has the exact opposite effect, it makes you stop blinking, part of the "fear response" is to make you eyes blink less often.

Noetheinner · Post by **Noetheinner** » 2006-01-28 16:04

I remember a DEV saying a while ago that we were going for realistic gameplay. As much as I think this is kinda cool, you really gotta think of what it will do to the gameplay. If you want to incoperate screams into the game, they'll get as annoying as the radio comms soon cause they'll all sound the same. Blinking IS pretty dang fast so ummm I think that would be out too. Shoot even in the thread that says stuff about the blood splater, Yeah I think it's cool but would it detract from gameplay?

That is all.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2006-01-28 18:05

I kind of agree GD. But then again, what is realistic? Realistically speaking we don't know what someone would do when they are shot or something explodes by them because almost everyone will react differently.

Like I said, this effect would be something what would only be used in moderation when you get hit or an explosion goes off near the player and it wouldn't last no longer than the time it actually takes to blink under cirumstances such as that, which is undeniably longer than usual.. Everyone that I've talked to that has actually been in or is still in the military fighting over in Iraq said that blinking during such situations is an understatement. Especially for explosions. Some guys sit there with thier eyes closed praying to God.

Regaurdless, personally I think it's MORE realistic than the effect that is currently being used...

I don't know, what do you think should be the hit effect? I mean, what else could we do to simulate being hit/damaged?

beta · Post by **beta** » 2006-01-28 18:15

Just played America's Amry last night.

Good game for simulating effects, crappy for actual gameplay

AA had the effect of when you got shot, your aim got "jerked" in some direction, also had when a grenade blows up near you, your guy get "frozen" and can't fire (like how the sprint in BF2 takes away your gun for firing, except your not moving).

Overall, the effects of the weapons on the player in AA were very well done, I suggest if you want to see some good suggestions, install the game (have to go through crappy basic training tho

) and try a few matches online (no singleplayer), might give you guys some ideas

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2006-01-28 18:19

The blink thing for about half a second, then blurred vision for another 30 seconeds of so if it was an explosion, blurred vision for about 5 seconds if it was being shot.

OOOH. that think that happens in saving private ryan, right after he gets out of the boat. He can't hear anything. it sounds all muffled. that effect is sort of in bf2, but it needs to be waaay more dramatic.

um you need to have a fairly dramatic camera twitcth, or you need to make it so you can't shoot your gun or something for half a second. what else...

you definetely need to scream or grunt or something. ideally we could have injury specific reactions, but other wise we could just a random scream set that plays one of the ten or so 'ouch' noises everytime you get hit, and they'd range in pain level and loudness like they did in 42.

the stamina reduction sounds good as well

could you maybe actually reduce the sensitivity of the mouse, to simulate sluggish movement or something?

and this is really speculation, but it would be awesome to see any time you got hit in the leg while moving, you'd go into the down state, but wake up yourself after about 4 or 5 seconds. this way youd shoot a guy in the leg, he'd fall down, and try to get up a couple seconds later. its complicated to implement, but i think that would rock.

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2006-01-28 23:27

Ya kinda... itd be hard to do correctly in bf2 though.

Lifetaker · Post by **Lifetaker** » 2006-01-28 23:47

{GD}Snake13 wrote:I'm sorry to be a nay-sayer but I think the blinking eye effective is 100% unrealistic. human eyes blink at an astonishing speed, we're talking hundreths of a second, and our brain tends to automaticly filter our eyelids out. If this was realistic then we'd all be walking around half blind cause we blink non-stop.

Also trauma has the exact opposite effect, it makes you stop blinking, part of the "fear response" is to make you eyes blink less often.

Don't look at it as "blinking" then. Percieve it more as a squint, or reaction to concussion. Most, if not all people respond to loud, concussive or banging noises close to them, by squinting, at the least. Dust, smoke, flashes, bangs... generally all of these stimuli will cause a person to involuntarily close the eyes momentarily.

Another thing that should be added here, on the subject of "realism". I have been unfortunate enough (as most of us have) to witness people (including myself) in various states of trauma, from breaking bones, to car accidents to getting shot, and one thing I can say in retrospect is that, though there are generalizations, people react differently from eachother.

In a video game, it is not possible at this point to give each character complex defining features such as, in this case, how they react to trauma. Also, I should state that in one of my training classes, I was informed by the instructor that over 70% of reported gunshot victims lose consciousness momentarily as a response to the chemical spikes in the body resulting from the trauma. Some for only a second, some for longer until the body can sort out the chemical distribution properly. If this is the case, I think personally,in game that a brief squinting of the eyes and having your stamina zapped temporarily from you is a good comprimise for these effects.

Post by **UK_Force** » 2006-01-28 23:56

{GD}Snake13 wrote:I'm sorry to be a nay-sayer but I think the blinking eye effective is 100% unrealistic. human eyes blink at an astonishing speed, we're talking hundreths of a second, and our brain tends to automaticly filter our eyelids out. If this was realistic then we'd all be walking around half blind cause we blink non-stop.

Also trauma has the exact opposite effect, it makes you stop blinking, part of the "fear response" is to make you eyes blink less often.

HOW MANY OF YOU ARE BLINKING WHILE READING THIS ......... and is it bothering you? Did you notice untill you read this ????

Why do people Blink? - To clean there eyes and at times to protect them ... all subconsciously .

There is a fine line between realism and Gameplay ....... and that is what this community is all about ............ finding it.

Good points keep em coming.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-29 00:02

The problem with the squinting in those pictures is that its extremely drastic. When you squint, it isn't usually that far is it? At least when I squint it isn't as I would still like to see something. Really I think suggestions are getting too far into impairing the players visual.

Again, I look at Day of Defeat: Source-- They way they have done it is great. If an explosion goes off nearby, you're stuck seeing whatever frame you saw just before the explosion went off, just a little more blury. This is effective when you're on offense, clearing a building, but when you're the recipient of this, it isn't too annoying (as I think seeing all this black would be) and it clears up quickly enough.

I honestly think that too much of blury vision here, eyes closed there, squinting here etc would get really old, really fast. A 3-4 second disorientation is really as far as it should go, maybe longer on the auditory side of things. Anything other than that, while possibly 'realistic' would degrade the playing experience.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2006-01-29 05:52

I agree, the blinking idea might be bad. It may get extremely annoying. But then again, maybe that's a good thing. It will make people avoid getting shot.

So what other ideas can we come up with guys?

The squint image I provided is very dramatic. It was just a suggestion. I just think it would be nice to see something a little more realistic. I think the problem here though, is the lack of knowledge of how people really react in combat to such things. And the truth is, a lot of people react differently to these types of things. So it's extremely hard to pinpoint a type of effect and say, "oh, this is what happens when you get shot." And vice versa.

My next suggestion would be to completely remove any type of on-screen effect and go straight to the basics that we KNOW would happen when you are shot or injured from an explosion. And this has been mentioned before.

Bullets:
If it's possible, when the player is shot, simply have the players accuracy drastically reduced and/or have the players view shifted SLIGHTLY to simulate the bullet impact.

In junction with this maybe we should also include Lifetakers idea. Depending on where the player gets hit, the stamina bar should be punished/taken away from when the player gets hit.

For instance, lets say the player gets hit in the leg. The stamina bar should go all the way down. No running for a soldier with a bullet in his leg. That's the reality of it. However, if that soldier was hit in the arm, the stamina bar would only go down a little because the soldier can still run for cover because his arm is used very little for running.

Explosions:
Definite blurring effect should be used. Maybe even a squint or black-out to simulate the disorientation and loss of conciousness. This will be dependant on how close the explosion is to the player and how much damage is done based on what type of explosion it is.

Explosions need to have a severe debilitating affect to the player. So if the shifting of the screen/accuracy is possible upon being damaged or hit by an explosion, that affect should be quite severe. Also I think, again depending on how close the explosion is and how much damage is delt, that the players stamina should be affected by the explosion as well.

Heres an idea for the loss of stamina. With bullet stamina reduction, the regaining of stamina should take significantly longer than an explosion stamina reduction. The reasoning behind this is because when you are shot, you can't just rub a bullet off and start running around again. But if you were only knocked out by an explosion, once you're re-oriented you can regain your stamina and quickly find cover. (that's of course providing that the explosion didn't load you up with shrapnel or debris.)

What do you guys think?

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-29 06:22

I like everything but the squinting, I think the blurring, loss of effective hearing and a slowing of your movement is good. Being shot definitely needs to take away your accuracy, I'm tired of hitting guys in the chest and having them dive to the ground and kill me. If you get the first hit you should get the kill.

Ugly Duck · Post by **Ugly Duck** » 2006-01-29 06:32

Unless your aim sucks and you got a lucky shot...

Anyways, yeah. The black screen/blinking thing may get a bit anoying/repetitive if it's too noticable(more than a half second). Sure players wouldn't want to get shot as much, but they would... and it would be anoying as poo. I know I started getting pissed off in COD when an enemy would charge me with an SMG and I could do nothing but sit there and take it. Then again it's probably because it took him half of the mag to finish the job.. prolonging my suffering.

I like the blurr from explosions and stuff... why cant that happen when you're shot? It would impair accuracy overall, but you could still function in close quarters or be able to take cover if fighting at longer ranges. That's the big problem I see with blacking out or blinking/squinting for too long, you can't do anything at all. If I were being shot I sure as hell wouldn't stand there and wait for more, I'd either shoot back or more than likely hide.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-29 06:37

The bullets don't really care if it was a lucky shot or not.

Ugly Duck · Post by **Ugly Duck** » 2006-01-29 06:51

'[R-PUB wrote:BrokenArrow']The bullets don't really care if it was a lucky shot or not.

=P

I was implying that someone might get a lucky hit and, if their aim is poor enough, give the target ample time to recover and return fire.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-29 15:38

Well what I mean is if you can get the drop on someone and hit them in the chest they shouldn't be able to drop to the ground and return perfect fire after just having been shot a split second before, regardless of whether or not it was a lucky shot. They still count.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2006-01-29 17:50

'[R-PUB wrote:BrokenArrow']Well what I mean is if you can get the drop on someone and hit them in the chest they shouldn't be able to drop to the ground and return perfect fire after just having been shot a split second before, regardless of whether or not it was a lucky shot. They still count.

That is something that I believe will be fixed with the 1.2 patch from EA Games.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2006-01-31 19:53

Here's a really nice video I sort of stumbled across of what HE tank shells should look like. Also note the sound the shell makes. Very loud.

More dust, less "hollywood" fire.

(the fire you see off to the left is not from the shell exploding, it was obviously something that was extremely flammable. Probably a gas-line. Plus it ignites AFTER the shell exlpoded.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV41UM7oh_4

Martini · Post by **Martini** » 2006-01-31 21:07

You can experiment a little.

Just start by using the health bar system like a sliding scale. The less health you have the slower you move. I think the slower movement would make a substancial amount of difference when hit. Nothing worse then putting a couple shots into another player and watch him sprint off!

Without a proximity chat to tell my squad I'm down, its nice to be able to spot the guy with the commorose thing before I bite it all togther. If we reduce the visual we might not be able to spot the bugger for our team in those last final moments.

I like the disorientation idea for grenades/rockets/missles etc. Use that flashbang effect when in approximity to those things would be kinda cool.

Just my thoughts.