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Posted: 2008-02-11 19:54
by Viper5
"The bold move is the right move."
Yes, but are we talking about RTS or PR
But yeah, in terms of rushing, sometimes its the only way your going to succeed.
Posted: 2008-02-11 20:11
by BloodBane611
Pub tactics must evolve, rushing always has its counters. If you're getting defeated by rushers, figure out how to beat them. There is no single tactic that will always win, you must use your assets creatively.
Posted: 2008-02-11 21:41
by *spacecadett*
Nice idea CAS i really like it, the only flaw is what do you do when your team dosent have a CO.
Posted: 2008-02-11 22:15
by KandiotA
Rush is the most effective tactic.
Usually S.Leaders lose time doing ineffective tactics like set usefuls check points before RP, looking for enemy rally points or trying destroy enemy vehicles when they have flag to capture. They forget the main mission wich is capture the flag. For this reason I do not like being commander, I get nervous. Usually Im the first member who is waiting my squad on flag. Please don't care about enemy if they are out of the flag( i know that somtimes is good but only sometimes). That only on public servers.
Posted: 2008-03-28 08:41
by s69kern
I joined PR because of the TEAM play. Yes, it's competative team play and I see the rush going on all the time. I can only hope that exploiting it will help programmers in future maps correct the issue.
Has this horse been beat dead yet?
Posted: 2008-03-28 08:58
by HughJass
Hey, the way PR works is no one has fun unless the other side is getting steam rolled. Now sometimes you have these awsome stalemates that result in great firefights. With that in mind I think rush tactics are tactics, nothing else. They are not unfair.
Posted: 2008-03-28 09:01
by HughJass
CAS_117 wrote:Right off the bat the poll is sort of worded badly. I don't have a problem with dirty tactics, its when you start to exploit the obvious short comings of the map size is the problem. The only way rushing would happen in Kashan or Qinling (both the only really realistically sized maps) is to have people spawn at an uncap flag (cause thats how the real military deploys people). In reality you receive your orders, an objective, and a whatever personell and units you are assigned/capable of stealing. If all maps were bigger then rushing wouldn't happen. In PR I think that force deployment would make more sense if it weren't so linear as to what flag you are going to. I wish you could neutralize any flag at any time to make things a little more interesting. Instead of attacking east beach, why not attack a city instead? Its like the objectives, regardless of their actual strategic or tactical value has already been decided for you. You don't even need to think all that much when it comes to actual movement provided you aren't completely addled.
Its that the enemy knows EXACTLY where you are going, ALL the time. Once the commander system is ironed out I would like to be able see that commanders need to approve rally points like they do firebases ect. Now I am not suggesting that the commander should place them, but he should be able to give them an allowable limit. For example if you are issued an order to attack east tower then the CO can place a beacon where you can only deploy an RP within 50-100m.
So basically conter-attack? or what are you suggesting?
Posted: 2008-03-28 09:55
by General_J0k3r
a) it's a valid tactic. if you get problems while capping your first flag => kill the enemy or just fend them off until you have the flag. afterwards, don't worry about them.
b) it has been even institutionalized in kashan desert
c) it doesn't work as it used to do. on jabal the usmc just have to move to west beach with 2 apcs and ur fucked. the infamous mine rush on qwai isn't possible anymore either. maybe due to some experiences on our server? we used to do it often and with the sl spawn and the inability to cap mine from outside you really could fend the enemy off for a complete round.
d) if one squad can stop the enemy from capping their first flag, it is most likely that the enemy team tries the same thing as you
.
Posted: 2008-03-28 11:31
by IAJTHOMAS
Depends whether i'm inside mine as PRC or outside mine as USA tbh...
Posted: 2008-03-28 15:58
by General_J0k3r
IAJTHOMAS wrote:Depends whether i'm inside mine as PRC or outside mine as USA tbh...
the mine trick has been screwed by not having nanjings at estate and the extended cap radius. which is good since it was really unfair from time to time. a whole squad of LP and TB in the mine, with squadleader spawn still existent at that time, was hell for the USMC.
Posted: 2008-03-28 16:10
by 101 bassdrive
CAS_117 wrote:Right off the bat the poll is sort of worded badly. I don't have a problem with dirty tactics, its when you start to exploit the obvious short comings of the map size is the problem. The only way rushing would happen in Kashan or Qinling (both the only really realistically sized maps) is to have people spawn at an uncap flag (cause thats how the real military deploys people). In reality you receive your orders, an objective, and a whatever personell and units you are assigned/capable of stealing. If all maps were bigger then rushing wouldn't happen. In PR I think that force deployment would make more sense if it weren't so linear as to what flag you are going to. I wish you could neutralize any flag at any time to make things a little more interesting. Instead of attacking east beach, why not attack a city instead? Its like the objectives, regardless of their actual strategic or tactical value has already been decided for you. You don't even need to think all that much when it comes to actual movement provided you aren't completely addled.
Its that the enemy knows EXACTLY where you are going, ALL the time. Once the commander system is ironed out I would like to be able see that commanders need to approve rally points like they do firebases ect. Now I am not suggesting that the commander should place them, but he should be able to give them an allowable limit. For example if you are issued an order to attack east tower then the CO can place a beacon where you can only deploy an RP within 50-100m.
well, wed then be back to BF2 right away which cant be the real deal since thered be 3-4 guys at every flag capping.
I couldnt see big firefights happen or flanking which actually matters besides getting to the flag without being seen.
Im not sure, but the enemy most times doesnt know where you are.
the problem is rather that your team shows up EXACTLY where the enemy EXPECTS you to move in from.
I barely see flanking on servers atm. when I as a SL tell my people to flank they often dont understand whattheH I mean.
I have to set a movemarker from the RP Ive set to the flanking position from where wed then move in so they have a yellow icon on their screen they can align to.
and besides, every rush technique has its countertechniques. for instance EJOD where the superior MEC apc's can camp the city entrance and engage the gas station. its about estimating the opposing teams players, reckon with it, and flank with a support truck and h-at to western hill to counter. what comes in handy that is that once the apc's are gone, the ruins are no problem and youre already at west city...
or on qwai, handling mine rushers or blocking temple would be the job of the ah6. also I barely ever see anyone use the boat at processing..
thinking about it its whats makes the maps interesting
AAS2 is a great standard. rushing and countering/ flanking it is the spice
Posted: 2008-03-28 16:28
by =Romagnolo=
When well used, it is a good tactic.
Posted: 2008-03-28 16:49
by IAJTHOMAS
101 bassdrive wrote:or on qwai, handling mine rushers or blocking temple would be the job of the ah6. also I barely ever see anyone use the boat at processing..
Used to use that to rush and blow the river bridge and mine/rig the bridge from temple. If you have careless PRC drivers they can lose full squads in Nanjings or if your lucky you can bag a tank. Also means you have a squad across the river to move in on village once your team has capped the other flags.
Posted: 2008-03-29 00:53
by Kinote
It's a legit tactic that greatly increases the chance of my team winning. Very often my squad will be one of those at the pointy end of the spear, standing in front of the enemy's base before they even have their first truck loaded up (Insert hyperbole here.). Coincidently, I play for keeps more than I play for the sake of dicking around for giggles. I play to win. It's not really much concern of mine how much fun YOU are having, I'm having a ball kicking the shit out of everybody.
Sirlin.net — Your source of shocking insights on game design Introducing . . . the Scrub I highly recommend reading the rest of Playing to Win, it's free on his site.
Posted: 2008-03-29 01:12
by CodeC.Seven
i think it depends... The map, your team... At Ejod its a good thing to hold them away from gardens as long as possible... It really depends on various factors.
Posted: 2008-03-29 01:17
by fuzzhead
Razick wrote:I think we need AAS flags to be randomized like the Insurgency caches
dbzao been thinking of some interesting ways to affect AAS for v0.8
Posted: 2008-03-29 01:39
by Bob_Marley
Entirely legit. If you can move faster than the enemy then do so, its stupid to throw away an advantage. All tactics have their cost, Rushes often leave them open to counter strikes, for example.
If its stupid, but works, it isn't stupid. Thats what I say. And personally, I can't stand people who complain about tactics like rushing, closing to point blank range and ripping them apart on full auto or even AT sniping.
If I rush, blow my transport viechles, if I close in, pin me down, if I AT snipe, roll over me with a tank (as I now have nothing to knock it out with) don't blame people for taking advantage of your short comings. Thats exactly what tactics are all about.
Posted: 2008-03-29 02:36
by Waaah_Wah
[R-MOD]Bob_Marley wrote:Entirely legit. If you can move faster than the enemy then do so, its stupid to throw away an advantage. All tactics have their cost, Rushes often leave them open to counter strikes, for example.
If its stupid, but works, it isn't stupid. Thats what I say. And personally, I can't stand people who complain about tactics like rushing, closing to point blank range and ripping them apart on full auto or even AT sniping.
If I rush, blow my transport viechles, if I close in, pin me down, if I AT snipe, roll over me with a tank (as I now have nothing to knock it out with) don't blame people for taking advantage of your short comings. Thats exactly what tactics are all about.
QFT!