Project Reality Forums

Tannhauser wrote: What about Turkey and Pakistan? More green and forestish countries, wouldn't that mean forest skins for MEC?

This.

Tannhauser wrote:As for now, even the only opfor *new* community model, the REAL Vodnik, is still not in the process of being implemented!

Do want

charliegrs wrote:to me the mec was sort of a coalition that the arab countries made after the US left iraq sometime like 2009-2012 and iraq fell into chaos. the arab countries did not want a failed state sitting smack dab in the middle of the region, a breeding ground for terrorism that was more of a threat to secular arab regimes in the area then to the US. so the arab countries formed a strong alliance, combining all of theyre oil wealth to buy top of line russian military equipment, and mec then occupied iraq and secured it. which was much easier for an arab army to do then a western army. i think if they were gonna be based anywhere, it would be riyadh saudi arabia. as for why they use G3s, im not really sure of that. maybe aks are just getting too outdated and they couldnt buy m16s from the US anymore. well anyway thats just my 2 cents.

They probably use the G3 because Iran would sell there stock off.

Problem with the argument that it is a coalition, is that the MEC are utilizing what appears to be a single, unified army, most likely backed by a shared economy and such. I would like to think of the MEC as an advanced supranational government (Like the African Union or something). Probably started out pure arabic (Saudi Arabia, Syria, Oman, Egypt etc., then invaded other "enemies" such as the persian nations, and no doubt Israel.

Yeah, the MEC is quite unified and standardized for a "coalition". Impressive, considering that NATO has at least 3 different MBTs in use just in its primary nations, a huge number of non-standardized APCs, supply vehicles, etc. Apparently the arabs beat us way out on this one

Anyhow, it's fictional, it doesn't have to make sense.

OMG not this again. I'm getting quite tired of this misperception of people on the whole issue of the Middle East. I'll just paste my answers from the last time someone brought this up:

MEC’s are suppose to be a fictional Arab coalition force, while Iranians are Persians. You can't have two of them together as Both Arabs and Persians hate each other. Arabs are Sunni Muslims, while Persians although having a mix of different religions, their government is Shiite Muslim based. One last problem in fitting the Iranians into the MEC group would be the language. Persians speak Farsi and NOT Arabic (like the MEC forces).

Just because MEC is suppose to represent a fictional Middle Eastern force we’re to presume that all Arabs, Persians, Sunni and Shia Muslims have somehow set aside centuries of war and hate to unite against the West? Let me explain something to you since you don’t seem to have the proper knowledge about the Middle East to recognize why the whole Godforsaken area is so unbalanced right now. First of all, Persians hate the Arabs to the fullest degree. They’ve been at war with one another for thousands of years before US or Canada existed and still are. During the Iran-Iraq war from 1980-1988, Iraq(Arab state) received financial support from almost all major Arab countries in the Middle East; oil rich countries like Saudi Arabia ($30.9 billion), Kuwait ($8.2 billion) and the United Arab Emirates ($8 billion) helped Saddam with costs to keep his war going against Iran. It cost Iran more than 1 million casualties, and roughly $350 billion. This is only one of the most recent Arab-Persian conflicts, but the differences don’t end there. Iran wasn’t always a Muslim country and today its one of the only major Shia Muslim nations, while the majority of Arab countries around Iran are Sunni Muslim states. Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims don’t accept one another’s fates and there have been many wars between the two followers for centuries. One good example would be the present state of Iraq and the civil war between the Shia followers and the Sunnis we’re seeing. The only true Arab Allied of Iran would be the Lebanese Hezbollah organization and that’s because they’re also Shia Islam followers. Not to forget Hezbollah was originally formed and financially supported by Iran. But Hezbollah only holds 14 of the 128 seats in Lebanon's Parliament, and does not have enough power to provide sufficient support as an Allied to Iran. So realistically speaking, Iran would and never could fit into the whole MEC force in a mod like Project Reality, because the differences are too many to set aside.

I hardly think it’s possible that one day in the near future the Iranian people will set aside their language barre, religion, skin color, culture, and change nearly all of their military equipment to match those of an Arab state such as Syria or Iraq so they could fit your view of Iran.

PS. Please do care to research about the Middle Eastren nations before you judge them all as one.

'[R-CON wrote:Cheeseman;613803']

MEC’s are suppose to be a fictional Arab coalition force, while Iranians are Persians.Please do care to research about the Middle Eastren nations before you judge them all as one.

First off, it's the Middle Eastern Coalition, not the Arabic Coalition, so you have no reason to get your panties in a twist and claim that they are Arab.

Next, the Taliban fought against the US, as did the old Iraqi state, and Iran some point in the future isn't really a far-fetched possibility. If different Muslim countries have more in common with each other than with the American and British forces invading their lands to take their oil, then they will likely join forces temporarily. How is that even remotely unlikely?

That being said, stop being an elitist ----. Nobody is lumping all middle eastern countries as one, there is a coalition in the game, and people are contemplating on what exactly it is. Geez.


-Warning points issued for language

Oh Jesus, it doesn't even exist. Why waste time argueing about it?

milobr wrote:Oh Jesus, it doesn't even exist. Why waste time argueing about it?

Because there isn't a real MEC to argue about.

But yea guys, no need to get riled about it.

the MEC are just a convenient team for EA to use, since conflict has happened/is happening in the middle east and they didn't want the political fallout of naming a particular enemy.

But if they were real I'd guess they would be like how many international forces are, incompatible kits and radios...Grab ur mobile phones

Well given the current political context of the Middle East I think it'd be more likely that the MEC, if it is indeed Arab-based (don't they speak Arab, and not Farsi?) would be formed probably by Syria, Jordan, maybeLebanon, maybe Egypt, and maybe Iraq. Saudi Arabia is another maybe if we assume the Saudi royal family is somehow overthrown and a more anti-American government takes over.

Of course this is fictional but it's fun to think up stories and things. So let's say it happens like this:

At some point US political presence and authority in the region is destabilized. Israel, threatened by Iranian military aggressiveness has become a proactive player in the Middle East and has launched attacks against Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iran. Alarmed by this aggressiveness, Syria and Jordan form an interim military coalition for mutual protection against further military action by Israel. The two begin co-operating on military exercises and intelligence. Iran is more than happy to help out, although relations between the countries are fragile, Iran is always willing to stub the toe of the West and so forms agreements for trade in military technology. Things grow disturbingly hostile towards Israel and the Allied Coalition; insurgent activity rises in Palestine and Lebanon while Jordan and Syria begin mobilizing forces. In Iraq, the government, forming closer ties with its Arab nations as well as with Iran due to pressure from its population, becomes verbally, although not officially, hostile towards the occupation.

Rising anti-American and anti-western sentiment rises in the Saudi public over the course of several months as several terrorist attacks on US and Coalition targets inside Saudi Arabia prompt the US military to step up security around its bases in Saudi territory. The Saudi royal government complies and allows US military intelligence to operate freely on Saudi soil, which incites further outrage from the population as clashes between protesters and the US military flare up.

This lasts for a year or two, the situation slowly becoming worse. Insurgent activity in Saudi Arabia leads to massive security increases which adds further fuel to the fire. A highly volatile situation develops in which the royal Saudi family faces a mass uprising similar to the Iranian "revolution" against the Shah. It all boils over when a group of high-ranking Saudi military officials launch a coup d'etat against the royal Saudi family and overthrow them. This leads to massive rioting and chaos in Saudi Arabia and a nightmare for US and Coalition security. Although the new government, a junta formed by several key generals in the Saudi military, does not declare open hostility to the United States, sentiments among the population lead to widespread violence. Over the course of several months US and Coalition interests in the country are withdrawn to neighbouring Kuwait, Qatar and U.A.E., with only a handful of US military bases in Saudi territory being maintained.

This new government begins forming close ties with Syria and Jordan over the coming months. Despite the previous violence, Saudi Arabia's oil reserves, and the wealth of the royal family which has been seized, make its way to Jordan and Syria via several lucrative military technology contracts and purchases. This allows Jordan and Syria to step up its aggression towards Israel, which forces Israel to launch pre-emptive strikes against Syria, Jordan -- and Saudi Arabia.

A short war breaks out as Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia clash with Israeli forces, though little ground is taken by either. Syria re-occupies Lebanon, and although they are met with some protest, they are also met with support from more radical anti-American and anti-Israeli tendencies in the country. Using the war as pretext, Hezbollah stages a power-grab and manages to attain a majority in the Lebanese cabinet. Lebanon, under Hezbollah's direction, joins with Syria and Jordan to form the Middle East Coalition, which is seen not only as a highly co-operative military relationship but also an economic partnership, which includes Saudi Arabia in a practical but largely unofficial way.

This continues on for several years. The situation in Iraq begins to stabilize and for a couple of years peace seems to be at hand. However, emboldened by new economic prosperity, the Middle East Coalition begins to fund, arm, and even train a new wave of insurgents in Iraq. Saudi Arabia begins the process of nationalizing its oil, which prompts the US to cut diplomatic ties and declare sanctions on its once close partner. Several military clashes in the waters of the Persian Gulf prompt Saudi Arabia to form closer economic and military ties with the MEC until finally joining it. Months later, insurgents in Palestine, being supported by the MEC, take a heavy toll on the Israeli military, forcing a large-scale and permanent invasion of the West Bank and Gaza involving over a hundred thousand Israeli soldiers. The MEC responds by launching its own massive attack against northern Israel through Lebanon as well as the West Bank. Within weeks MEC forces have reached the outskirts of Jerusalem and Haifa, threatening to take the two cities. This leads the US and its Coalition to declare war against the MEC. After a quick bombing campaign, US and Coalition forces enter South-Eastern Saudi Arabia from Iraq, Kuwait, and Qatar. The war is on.

Woo, that was fun! Of course, its all for sh*ts and giggles (I'm bored and can't sleep). Take from it what you will.

I know militarily the Syrian, Jordanian and Saudi militaries are quite different; hence the declarations of "after several years" and so on which I feel would be time enough to allow for the militaries of these countries, under the guidance of the MEC, to become a little more standardized. Saudi involvement, I believe, is essential, as its not only interesting (a popular revolt overthrowing the royal family, similar to Iran in the 70s, etc) but the massive oil revenue would be a big help for the MEC (who would otherwise find it very hard to match the West in military technology).

This story also leaves an "open hole" for Iran. Will Iran join forces with the MEC? Will it see the MEC as a threat to its growing influence? Will it explode into a three-way war? Will Iran help the MEC on the sidelines? Etc.

Of course, then there's China. We can just say that they're heavily backing the MEC with military technology and funding (all that nationalized oil has to go somewhere ,and I'm sure China would love to have it) and some series of events cascades into them becoming involved (though from the background of the game, it seems that all conflict between US/China is in mainland China itself. I'd like to see some fighting going on in south-asia, Korea and Taiwan).

Overall I hope that PR starts to develop a more realistic "atmosphere". The above story allows for the MEC to be maintained as a faction (though tbh even if the above story happened I still don't see them being able to aquire T-90s in such numbers that it becomes their MBT. They really need some T-72s and T-55's) and also allows for the development of an Iranian faction (the two would be largely the same in terms of military technology I'd imagine, and playing experience would be very similar, ie tank battles in deserts or desert urban environments yadda yadda, but it'd still be cool). Really, its all we have to go on, atleast until PR gets to the point that they can start making more limited factions, ie Columbian drug militias vs. DEA, Filipino Maoists vs. US-backed Filipino military, Sri Lankan seperatists vs. Indian military etc etc.

Antonious_Bloc wrote:First off, it's the Middle Eastern Coalition, not the Arabic Coalition, so you have no reason to get your panties in a twist and claim that they are Arab.

Next, the Taliban fought against the US, as did the old Iraqi state, and Iran some point in the future isn't really a far-fetched possibility. If different Muslim countries have more in common with each other than with the American and British forces invading their lands to take their oil, then they will likely join forces temporarily. How is that even remotely unlikely?

That being said, stop being an elitist prick. Nobody is lumping all middle eastern countries as one, there is a coalition in the game, and people are contemplating on what exactly it is. Geez.

Middle Eastren coalition ay? the same one that solely speaks Arabic and not Farsi? The same one that has the facial structure and skin tone of an eastren Arab?

And did you care to read about the centuries of war between Arabs and Persians, Sunni and Shia’s to predict the highly unlikely alliance of the most common Sunni Arab nations with Iran? Tell me this, when the United States attacked did the Sunni’s and Shia’s make friends and fight the Americans? Or did a civil war break lose? When you care to pick up a book and read a little about the history of the Middle East, the culture differences and conflicts that have risen throughout history between them, or what exactly are the differences between Shia and Sunni Islam which has sparked such fury and conflicts within the extremists of these groups then come argue with me on this.

And a note for the future learn to show a little repect in your forum of communication. The PR community is a friendly and respectful one so learn to behave in a proper manner instead of name calling and the use of disrespectful phrases.

Antonious_Bloc wrote:First off, it's the Middle Eastern Coalition, not the Arabic Coalition, so you have no reason to get your panties in a twist and claim that they are Arab.

but they speak Arabic.

That kinda gives us the impression that they are an Arab force dont you think?

lets also keep in mind that the MEC is not THAT far fetched. theres has been numerous times since the state of israel was created that all the arab countries banded together to try to eliminate it. if i remember correctly, it happened in 1948 when israel was created, again in 1956(?) the six day war in 1967, and the yom kippur war in 1973. and while the arab countries did not make a formal coalition, they fought together and combined theyre militaries. so the thought of a fictional mec isnt really that fictional because in a way it has already happened.

and i also agree that it would be very unlikely that iran would be a member of the MEC.

Quick reminder:

Keep it civil folks

[R-CON]Cheeseman wrote:Middle Eastren coalition ay? the same one that solely speaks Arabic and not Farsi? The same one that has the facial structure and skin tone of an eastren Arab?

And did you care to read about the centuries of war between Arabs and Persians, Sunni and Shia’s to predict the highly unlikely alliance of the most common Sunni Arab nations with Iran? Tell me this, when the United States attacked did the Sunni’s and Shia’s make friends and fight the Americans? Or did a civil war break lose? When you care to pick up a book and read a little about the history of the Middle East, the culture differences and conflicts that have risen throughout history between them, or what exactly are the differences between Shia and Sunni Islam which has sparked such fury and conflicts within the extremists of these groups then come argue with me on this.

And a note for the future learn to show a little repect in your forum of communication. The PR community is a friendly and respectful one so learn to behave in a proper manner instead of name calling and the use of disrespectful phrases.

First, language doesn't matter, because the British army only has English accents, not scottish or welsh, so by that logic the spoken language doesn't represent every single division that possibly exists in the army.

Second, i can tell you all that **** right now, and I'm telling you that it doesn't matter. If the US and Britain were fighting in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc, then I guarantee that those countries will fight back to defend themselves. By your logic, because they have religious differences (religious differences that still put them in the same boat against Israel, a point which you conveniently leave out), they would not defend their own countries against an invading force. This makes no sense, considering if the United States went to war with Mexico and Canada, both Mexico and Canada would be against the US.

And I would hardly call an air of superiority friendly and respectful, so follow your own suggestion.

look at how many languages are spoke in NATO so you cant say well they dont speak the same language so there for they cant be allies

Tannhauser wrote:+1 for charliegrs description, fits pretty much the idea of a fictional coalition of middle-eastern countries.

What about Turkey and Pakistan? More green and forestish countries, wouldn't that mean forest skins for MEC?

You realise Turkey has a US Airbase in its borders, is in the process of joining the EU, is in NATO and is allied with America and EU, and it recognizes Israel, I don't think this country would be in MEC....

'[R-CON wrote:Cheeseman;613803']OMG not this again. I'm getting quite tired of this misperception of people on the whole issue of the Middle East. I'll just paste my answers from the last time someone brought this up:

MEC’s are suppose to be a fictional Arab coalition force, while Iranians are Persians. You can't have two of them together as Both Arabs and Persians hate each other. Arabs are Sunni Muslims, while Persians although having a mix of different religions, their government is Shiite Muslim based. One last problem in fitting the Iranians into the MEC group would be the language. Persians speak Farsi and NOT Arabic (like the MEC forces).

Just because MEC is suppose to represent a fictional Middle Eastern force we’re to presume that all Arabs, Persians, Sunni and Shia Muslims have somehow set aside centuries of war and hate to unite against the West? Let me explain something to you since you don’t seem to have the proper knowledge about the Middle East to recognize why the whole Godforsaken area is so unbalanced right now. First of all, Persians hate the Arabs to the fullest degree. They’ve been at war with one another for thousands of years before US or Canada existed and still are. During the Iran-Iraq war from 1980-1988, Iraq(Arab state) received financial support from almost all major Arab countries in the Middle East; oil rich countries like Saudi Arabia ($30.9 billion), Kuwait ($8.2 billion) and the United Arab Emirates ($8 billion) helped Saddam with costs to keep his war going against Iran. It cost Iran more than 1 million casualties, and roughly $350 billion. This is only one of the most recent Arab-Persian conflicts, but the differences don’t end there. Iran wasn’t always a Muslim country and today its one of the only major Shia Muslim nations, while the majority of Arab countries around Iran are Sunni Muslim states. Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims don’t accept one another’s fates and there have been many wars between the two followers for centuries. One good example would be the present state of Iraq and the civil war between the Shia followers and the Sunnis we’re seeing. The only true Arab Allied of Iran would be the Lebanese Hezbollah organization and that’s because they’re also Shia Islam followers. Not to forget Hezbollah was originally formed and financially supported by Iran. But Hezbollah only holds 14 of the 128 seats in Lebanon's Parliament, and does not have enough power to provide sufficient support as an Allied to Iran. So realistically speaking, Iran would and never could fit into the whole MEC force in a mod like Project Reality, because the differences are too many to set aside.

I hardly think it’s possible that one day in the near future the Iranian people will set aside their language barre, religion, skin color, culture, and change nearly all of their military equipment to match those of an Arab state such as Syria or Iraq so they could fit your view of Iran.

All very good points well made but just one thing, there are 1 or 2 Sunni's, Shia and Persians I know and who get along with each other just fine, it might help that they're in the UK but I'm sure there are plenty of examples to be found in the Middle East also. My point is they don't all hate each other and want start a war every few years. In fact the biggest point of consensus is they'd rather not go to war and not see their families and friends killed/cities, towns and livelihoods destroyed.

Surely the premise of the MEC concept is that it is an Americanized stereotype designed to reinforce a polarizing "them and us" / "good vs evil", "Cowboys vs Indians" "Yanks vs Nazis", "Grunts vs Gooks" attitude amongst the games main retail market. To which end it is anti reality and basically a piece of US propaganda that supports such ridiculous ideas as an "Axis of Evil".

Mandarin isn't they only language in China either.

Due to the MEC's lack of Eurofighters, F-16s, F-15s, Tornado's, Huey's, Abrams, Humvees, plus a whole well equipped armies worth of western produced "defense systems" you'd have to say Saudi Arabia are not in it. Which is a shame because it would make the game a lot more interesting and realistic apart from the fact that this is a fairly clear indication of why Saudi Arabia wouldn't go to war against the west. More likely they're providing military bases for the US and GB and letting them use their air space.

Terror_Terror_Terror wrote:All very good points well made but just one thing, there are 1 or 2 Sunni's, Shia and Persians I know and who get along with each other just fine, it might help that they're in the UK but I'm sure there are plenty of examples to be found in the Middle East also. My point is they don't all hate each other and want start a war every few years. In fact the biggest point of consensus is they'd rather not go to war and not see their families and friends killed/cities, towns and livelihoods destroyed.

Surely the premise of the MEC concept is that it is an Americanized stereotype designed to reinforce a polarizing "them and us" / "good vs evil", "Cowboys vs Indians" "Yanks vs Nazis", "Grunts vs Gooks" attitude amongst the games main retail market. To which end it is anti reality and basically a piece of US propaganda that supports such ridiculous ideas as an "Axis of Evil".

Mandarin isn't they only language in China either.

Due to the MEC's lack of Eurofighters, F-16s, F-15s, Tornado's, Huey's, Abrams, Humvees, plus a whole well equipped armies worth of western produced "defense systems" you'd have to say Saudi Arabia are not in it. Which is a shame because it would make the game a lot more interesting and realistic apart from the fact that this is a fairly clear indication of why Saudi Arabia wouldn't go to war against the west. More likely they're providing military bases for the US and GB and letting them use their air space.

My point here is that Iran is run by a bunch of Islamic Mullahs(one of the main reasons why Sunni's don't accept Shia muslims). They might not be the suicidal kind, but they do run their government with strict Islamic laws. So of course not all Persians and Arabs hate one another, but the majority of the population of Iran which has followed their government throughout the 29years of the Islamic Revolution which originally formed the Iranian government do share these believes to some extent.

Now a reasonable approach would be to presume that MEC is formed by an alliance of Arab nations of the Middle East; sometime in the future when America and Israel attack parts of that region. Iran would most likely not represent a leader or part of the MEC military force, but would be a key player of providing weapons to these groups since it’s not such a farfetched assumption as Iran has been known to provide arms to both Syria and Lebanon.

Antonious_Bloc wrote:First, language doesn't matter, because the British army only has English accents, not scottish or welsh, so by that logic the spoken language doesn't represent every single division that possibly exists in the army.

Second, i can tell you all that **** right now, and I'm telling you that it doesn't matter. If the US and Britain were fighting in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc, then I guarantee that those countries will fight back to defend themselves. By your logic, because they have religious differences (religious differences that still put them in the same boat against Israel, a point which you conveniently leave out), they would not defend their own countries against an invading force. This makes no sense, considering if the United States went to war with Mexico and Canada, both Mexico and Canada would be against the US.

And I would hardly call an air of superiority friendly and respectful, so follow your own suggestion.

The problem with that is that it makes the MEC sound as if they were formed in the immediate aftermath of a western attack. As mentioned, it seems like the MEC operate a single armed force with standardized training, equipment etc. I imagine such a process to accomplish that would take quite some time.

Secondly, what are the chances of the U.S/U.K, NATO etc. making an act of war against what appears to be the majority of the middle-east. I know it seems that way with natural resources being the way they are, but I don't think we're willing to enter a prolonged war against what is conceived as a "superpower" here. Even if it was an alliance formed in retaliation, going against all those countries would cause a lot of unrest within our own population (Like how it was in Vietnam, and how it appears to be in Iraq). The U.S, and I think any other western nation invading another middle-east country, especially so soon after Iraq, just seems unlikely.

I think all in all though, nothing anyone says makes any sense, especially when you throw in China, Russia and several other NATO nations that want to invade each other's territory but don't want press the big red button.

BabaGurGur wrote:You realise Turkey has a US Airbase in its borders, is in the process of joining the EU, is in NATO and is allied with America and EU, and it recognizes Israel, I don't think this country would be in MEC....

Yup, I was just wondering because MEC Forestish maps would be ... *drools* (Pakistan is still possible tho)
But this is because there is no MEC actually, if MEC ever existed, then it would be a somewhat interesting alternative as it is rich enough to buy modern equipment and would be easier to join than EU.

As for all the debate here, for the sake of fun, this is all fictionnal! PR aims at combat reality and not pure political reality, as many scenarios wouldn't be possible and as it would reaquire a humongous load of work to make it politicaly accurate.
Unless we implement a Persian faction to simulate Iran, MEC will include Iran even if it is impossible : BECAUSE IT'S FICTIONAL !!! This thread isn't about comparing reality with fiction, this thread is trying to explain how (as unrealistic as it can be) MEC started existing fictionaly in the EA universe and how it could be improved as the official EA Opfor faction.