Project Reality Forums

IAJThomas, basically the game uses radar to track targets till they are "locked-on". If a "lock-on" is not aquired the missles simply dumbfire without any guidance and will either crash into the ground or soar off into the wild blue yonder.

However, upon "lock-on" the missles chase whatever it was pointed at and generally goes after the closest thing after launch whether it be the intended enemy target, flares, or sadly a friendly jet or helicopter. So basically the only thing the "lock-on" process really does is arm and guide the missle to a certain degree.

I do understand what you mean about different types of guidance systems between the M3 Linebacker and the M1 Tunguska. But for the sake of Battlefield 2 and Project Reality it's been kept simple. In real life though, there are 2 different types of missle systems. Heat seeking (IR, Infared) and radar guided.

(Currently Used in BF2/PR) Heat seeking missles are guided by infared imaging where the heat of the engine exhaust usually is it's source of guidance using the aircrafts own power source against it. Although it is usually countered by flares which simply burn extremely hot and try to trick the missle into thinking it's the actual target causing it to detonate it's warhead... Although, rather than the missle blowing up as it should, it just flies through the flares instead in BF2/PR.

(Not currently used in BF2/PR) However radar guided missles generally operate upon the basis of the detection of a metallic object within a certain proximity, usually countered by chaff which are simple thin shredded metal strips that fan out in a large area (Like a wall of metallic confetti.) to attempt to trick the missle into thinking it's the target causing it to detonate it's warhead.

But currently, no it's not realistic. But it also would be difficult because now PR would have to devise a new missle counter measure system and different types of missles to be fired and pilots would have to know what to do when to do it and how to deal with it.

Dont missiles blow up when they hit flares in PR?

For that matter, why does an IR missile give the target an audible lock-on warning at all? This should have been removed just as the H/AT's lock-on tone has in .7.

^^ dam that'd be extreme but yes I'd like that. Presently its a test of reactions and ping, can you fire the rocket before he deploys flares. On Qinling with the sky very bright and the manpad having no tone to indicate a lock its really hard to know visually when exactly exactly to fire

Dont missiles blow up when they hit flares in PR?

The explosion may damage the aircraft whatever because the blast radius on AA rockets is massive

I know some aircraft have sensor which detect the 'flare' of heat caused by the launch of a IR missile. Don't know whether any of the aircraft in game have those type of sensor IRL.

Can we get to use the coax on the Linebacker then?

LeadMagnet wrote:For that matter, why does an IR missile give the target an audible lock-on warning at all? This should have been removed just as the H/AT's lock-on tone has in .7.

Even for me the lock on sound should stay without this sound the planes/choppers are doomed cause they dont know when they have to drop the flairs.
Remember the lock on sound has been allready changed some versions ago know they hear the sound just if the missile is already locked.

@ZaZZo
Whats a coax?

Dont missiles blow up when they hit flares in PR?

Dont think so. I think they just disapear. But i can be wrong.

coax := short for coaxial MG, a MG that points at the same direction as the main cannon does

hall0 wrote:
Dont think so. I think they just disapear. But i can be wrong.

The present system is so much better then stock bf2 ever was or pr in the past. There is a proximity explosion so even if flares do break the lock at any point, the missile might just explode in the vicinity of the heli anyway.

I dont believe flares trip this proximity explosion or 'explode' the rocket exactly. Oil well fires dont explode the rockets or you'd be able to use it to kill infantry at the flag below them but they do break the lock, in the same way as flares I presume

hall0 wrote:Even for me the lock on sound should stay without this sound the planes/choppers are doomed cause they dont know when they have to drop the flairs.

That's unrealistic how? If they can remove the lock-on tone for IR missiles then give the aircraft more packets of flares. That way if they are flying an attack mission into defended territory they are forced to drop flares on their runs and return to the field to reload their flares. I've watched CAS in action and honestly there were a few passes so low that I'm surprised didn't start forest fires from the flares.

Right now jets especially are free from fear while loitering over a battlefield until they get the magical warning (this is before launch so even the tail sensors can't have seen the thermal bloom of a launch). At that point they just drop flares, zoom out of the fight and come back before the defender can rearm.

Never said its unrealistic but its a little bit hard i think.

hall0 wrote:Never said its unrealistic but its a little bit hard i think.

Well IMHO The developers wanted to make the weapons fair for jet vs ground target situations, but the adverse effect is choppers get the snot kicked out of them when they do close range air support in bit open maps.

What I would like to see is the scroll mouse function switch ammo types again, and then the AAV would be more realistic IE if they are shooting at aircraft they most often use Missile in real life, and in PR. So they would more then likly be focused on that target isntead of shooting up infantry 24/7 like they do now.

Also any chance on makeing AAVs have to have both a driver and gunner? It's done that way in real life, and is way more realistic then what we have now. It would mean a team effort for a good AA crew.

Gunwing wrote:Well IMHO The developers wanted to make the weapons fair for jet vs ground target situations, but the adverse effect is choppers get the snot kicked out of them when they do close range air support in bit open maps.

That's the nature of the beast. Theres a major learning curve when going from horizontal flight (Jets) to a vertical lift (Helicopters) flight. And it's not easy.

Jet's have the ability to pierce deep into enemy territory and get the job done and get out of there swiftly. However helicopters can remain within a combat zone for long periods of time offering consistant support unlike jets, providing that the vehicles and other equipment that endangers helicopters are non-existant and/or destroyed.

But theres the problem. Most players don't make a squad to focus solely on making the battlefield as safe as possible for thier teams helicopters by focusing on AAV's and the like.

Gunwing wrote:Also any chance on makeing AAVs have to have both a driver and gunner? It's done that way in real life, and is way more realistic then what we have now. It would mean a team effort for a good AA crew.

That was actually discussed before in another thread I belive. The developers already declined to do this as it would remove yet another player from the battlefield. We have limited resources of having only 32 people on each side. Until we get up to 128 servers where we can actually afford to have it structured more like this, it isn't going to happen exactly. And BF2 isn't going to be changed to 128 anytime soon.

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:wow two good suggestions in one week? something is wrong here

nice idea, should be pretty easy to do to, just add a dummy weapon onto the AAVs

Then you might wanna do it....

[R-DEV]LeadMagnet wrote:That's unrealistic how? If they can remove the lock-on tone for IR missiles then give the aircraft more packets of flares. That way if they are flying an attack mission into defended territory they are forced to drop flares on their runs and return to the field to reload their flares. I've watched CAS in action and honestly there were a few passes so low that I'm surprised didn't start forest fires from the flares.

Right now jets especially are free from fear while loitering over a battlefield until they get the magical warning (this is before launch so even the tail sensors can't have seen the thermal bloom of a launch). At that point they just drop flares, zoom out of the fight and come back before the defender can rearm.

Sounds good to me, or as a compromise add a delay to the warning signal

Gunwing wrote:Well in all fairness and realism all Mobile AA guns never shoot the main gun 25MM cannons, at the same time as a AA rocket is fired. Why? They can't! You have to switch between weapons in real life. So if you make it so you have to do this in PR it's like flip the switch and wait for the missiles to arm. You should however have no problem switching back to AA rounds instantly though just to make it so you can deal with the infantry that harrass Mobile AA tanks 24/7

When he said "2 firemodes" he meant that it was simply switching the locking system on and off, so you could only fire the cannon when it was off. Not that when you have the radar on it would fire missiles and cannon rounds simultaneously.