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no thanks, no need to add it to improve teamplay or for balance - using attack copters sensibly is all the advantage you need, work as a team with specops and officers calling in airstrikes and designation and thats all you need.

Adding AAV's and more tanks ruins maps, the dome doesn't have a camera, and clearly for the purposes of general balance the copters need to be very roughly the same.

All that work for one asset, no thanks

Mora wrote:Sorry to say but this ain't going to work at all.

First of all when low you die! Very simple.
Second whats the point, you can already lase the targets.
Third lasing targets doesn't work very well while mobile..
And its also unrealistic to have a camera in the radar dome.

To get the radar work like real you have to see the enemy's on your minimap & your 3d map.

Isn't to commander able to sort out what shows on the map? Maybe that code can be used to simulate this.

And a radar to force us to die instant no thanks..

i gotta tell you flying low is the best tactic, i teach it to my air squadron and we have mastered it very well. being able to kill 3(or 4 can't remember) AAs without knowing where they were without them taking anyone of us down. Jonny can testify to this. So flying low is so much better then flying high, you just have to know how to.

no thanks, no need to add it to improve teamplay or for balance - using attack copters sensibly is all the advantage you need, work as a team with specops and officers calling in airstrikes and designation and thats all you need.

it doesn't work, try it. Unless you're with your clan it wont work.

no thanks, no need to add it to improve teamplay or for balance - using attack copters sensibly is all the advantage you need, work as a team with specops and officers calling in airstrikes and designation and thats all you need.

of course it doesnt have a camera but its hundreds of times more realistic then it not beeing used at all.

Well, what ever works best for you .

I stay with flying high as its imo better. And i too take down 4 aavs without knowing we where there.

We only get shot by either the enemy chopper or any aa, and even then we get away 7/10 times. And very rarely a HAT.
while close the ground you can be takin out by everything. Not to mansion laser tanks.
Plus you have a very big disadvantage over the enemy attack chopper.

"Work as a team with specops and officers calling in airstrikes and designation"

It works very well and yes on public games too. Mainly because he has eyes where your eye are not.
Thats why you never really lock a attack chopper squad, because then you have eyes and ears on the ground.

Mora wrote: Plus you have a very big disadvantage over the enemy attack chopper.

we fly in 2 apache teams one high one low. The high one scouts and covers the other one. Where as the other apache clears out all armor and personell. This tactic has been very successful. This only works if you get the other chopper too but when we only get one chopper we make sure to have an AA driving around that we can fall back too. This gives us a high survivability vs other helicopters. Usually when we die its because of an AA getting us while we fly over open areas.

Jonny wrote:We knew Marko was there, we had 6 AAs in the area scanning for him and still didn't see him.

Holy **** that many, i need some memory pills.

[R-PUB]Viper5 wrote:TBH, just sounds like a great way to make Atk Helos unbalanced towards the GB/USArmy/USMC Factions. I'd prefer to keep things even steven personally.

i dont think USMC uses the apache..or radar domes ...but thats ust what i think

markonymous wrote:we fly in 2 apache teams one high one low. The high one scouts and covers the other one. Where as the other apache clears out all armor and personell. This tactic has been very successful. This only works if you get the other chopper too but when we only get one chopper we make sure to have an AA driving around that we can fall back too. This gives us a high survivability vs other helicopters. Usually when we die its because of an AA getting us while we fly over open areas.



Holy **** that many, i need some memory pills.

Well that may work in a 6 man clan squad experienced in the matter, but when it is 2 of you and no one spotting anything at all, high is the way to go, especially on kashan.

This one is a tough nut to crack. IRL, all modern helicopters designed for offensive opperations operate at low hight. This is to avoid long-range radars, primarely. Terrain fetures provide better cover than alltitude, IRL. BUT, IRL, the Attack Chopper is ALWAYS operating at long distances when there is an actual risk of getting shot down. Designed to (Longbow) hide behind a hill, pop up and launch hellfire missiles at armoured, laser-designated(etc) targets many miles away. The longbow can also scan a battlefield with its own radar, (range unknown, but VAST), store information of up to 300 targets, clasify the most dangerous 18 (18 Hellfire payload) and fire with pin-point accuracy. All of this in less than 38 seconds. Furthermore, the fuel consumation of AC's is so big that they simple cannot be doing what they do in PR. Hanging still high up in the air is first of all, close to impossible due to winds, and second the thing that will cause the highest fuelconsumation. When carrying out closesupport missions, (using the chaingun and/or rockets), it will be when there is an allmost 100% certainty that it will not get shot down. Besides, all AC's are more usefull during darkness than day due to the human eye. 80% of all missions by AC's is done by night. So if we wanted complete realism, qingling would be to small a map for AC's. The AC's are working just fine as it is, they are close to useless if no TW guide them to their targets. Flying low is indeed a sound tactic, most of the time, you will just get shot down, due to some random meeting with an AA, or whatever,

High is the way to go

=(DK)=stoffen_tacticalsup wrote:This one is a tough nut to crack. IRL, all modern helicopters designed for offensive opperations operate at low hight. This is to avoid long-range radars, primarely. Terrain fetures provide better cover than alltitude, IRL. BUT, IRL, the Attack Chopper is ALWAYS operating at long distances when there is an actual risk of getting shot down. Designed to (Longbow) hide behind a hill, pop up and launch hellfire missiles at armoured, laser-designated(etc) targets many miles away. The longbow can also scan a battlefield with its own radar, (range unknown, but VAST), store information of up to 300 targets, clasify the most dangerous 18 (18 Hellfire payload) and fire with pin-point accuracy. All of this in less than 38 seconds. Furthermore, the fuel consumation of AC's is so big that they simple cannot be doing what they do in PR. Hanging still high up in the air is first of all, close to impossible due to winds, and second the thing that will cause the highest fuelconsumation. When carrying out closesupport missions, (using the chaingun and/or rockets), it will be when there is an allmost 100% certainty that it will not get shot down. Besides, all AC's are more usefull during darkness than day due to the human eye. 80% of all missions by AC's is done by night. So if we wanted complete realism, qingling would be to small a map for AC's. The AC's are working just fine as it is, they are close to useless if no TW guide them to their targets. Flying low is indeed a sound tactic, most of the time, you will just get shot down, due to some random meeting with an AA, or whatever,

just wait untill the random noobs discover that they can actually look up into the sky, then theres nowhere to hide

But what is on the agenda now is whether or not the apaches are fairly well representing reality and they aren't. There needs to be some kind of "bonus" for flying low. Since flying high just doesnt happen. The hovering bit is a tough one since real apaches don't actually hover for a long period of time since they have fire-and-forget missiles. IMO the TVGMs did a better job representing this then the missiles in this version. The could be somewhat improved by making the missile system now a system where you click instead of hold. clicking a target once will make the missile go there no matter what the chopper does. Clicking again will alter the course of the missile for when targets are moving.

now the apache has a range of 7 km and has a Combat radius of 480 km or 300mi which is not very short.

The solution probably is give tanks and apc etc.. bullet drop proportional to the view distance.

i agree with the idea to make the radar system on the Vech more powerfull, but rather then having the "look around cammra" why not have a system like the netbat target tracking in 2142, but instead of showing to a squad show it to other vech with radar systems, this would simulate the raddar system irl where data is shared with each other,

so on a map such as Qinling an apachie may spot a target then its ruff location is then sent to the merlin and eurofighter

That is actually not a bad idea. But i am afraid i wont be able to shoot enemy choppers down anymore then.

And when can we have the top-down-mode instead of the linear-attack-mode.

That would also help when close to the ground.

Mora, know you are a good gunner, but please let the pilots have some fun other than look at the beautifull clouds.

Besides still have your 30mm gun to show off with aye?

Uh and I actually like williejoness' idea, though ofcourse I want it balanced as everyone else, but after seeing documentaries around the internet about apaches great bilion LONGBOW system, it kinda makes no real sense to implant it into the apache.

Actually would be cool to have a brit map with 3 apaches, and ofcourse the other team to balance it would have alot of AA stuff, but only 1 Apache should have the Longbow that would scan for enemy vehicles and give the information to other apaches, which would make the Longbow apache a very important asset.

Alex, the other way to force the choppers low would be to have a proper range on an SAM or AAA system. Have it able to lock up choppers at very long range and give them a lock warning (indicating a radar lock) and reach out and hit them at 2km or so.

That'd force choppers to stay low to stay out of sight.

Then you can adjust tank ballistics to make it a little safer to be low.

Masaq, how would you fix the tank vs chopper prob?

They have to aim high incase another tank is on a mountain. And they "have" to be accurate due to realism.

.. You could inplant reflective plating which would repel incomming shells, but would be unrealistic and awesome overpowered

'[R-MOD wrote:Masaq;713642']Alex, the other way to force the choppers low would be to have a proper range on an SAM or AAA system. Have it able to lock up choppers at very long range and give them a lock warning (indicating a radar lock) and reach out and hit them at 2km or so.

That'd force choppers to stay low to stay out of sight.

Then you can adjust tank ballistics to make it a little safer to be low.

X2

Ye I agree too with AA changes. I'd like for the AA to have long range radar detecting missiles, and close range heat seekers. I'd also like for jets to be undetectable at long range (2km) by AAS if they have their radar off. Obviously helicopter dont have this option ingame so this would give jets options, force helicopters low and still keep the AA balanced.

'[R-MOD wrote:Masaq;713642']Alex, the other way to force the choppers low would be to have a proper range on an SAM or AAA system. Have it able to lock up choppers at very long range and give them a lock warning (indicating a radar lock) and reach out and hit them at 2km or so.

That'd force choppers to stay low to stay out of sight.

Then you can adjust tank ballistics to make it a little safer to be low.

Its not a bad idea, but the lack of stabilization/lock on ability and the amount of ground things that can kill you at a stupidly close engagement range that you are forced to use doesn´t seem very balanced.

'[R-MOD wrote:Masaq;713642']Alex, the other way to force the choppers low would be to have a proper range on an SAM or AAA system. Have it able to lock up choppers at very long range and give them a lock warning (indicating a radar lock) and reach out and hit them at 2km or so.

That'd force choppers to stay low to stay out of sight.

Then you can adjust tank ballistics to make it a little safer to be low.

The AAs are over powered as it is... 1,2 km lock-on/kill range vs the apaches 900 or so meters. It doesnt matter how high you fly the AA can always get you. It just has to look up.

Also to balance it out after the AA gets a longer range what would you do? give the apache at least one of its real life capabilities would be nice. Since the choppers are still the most unrealistic vehicles in PR.

I have also noticed that the A-10 has the wrong bomb... it has the mk82
which in essence is a dumb bomb... not a laser guided bomb.

Mark 82 bomb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now the Paveway II would be the realistic option.

GBU-12 Paveway II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... gbu-10.htm

at the bottom you can see platforms.