Air maps?

[Sir.Saul]

I want dogfighting, not bombing. 10 fighters per side is perfectly reasonable really. I mean on Kashan you don't get mass chaos with 6 tanks per side.

And really, this is Project REALITY, in reality air supremecy is what wins the day, so I don't think it would be too unrealistic to have large scale dogfights between carriers if two super powers ever clashed. So yeah, diversity is what keeps mods alive and running, as mentioned we have infantry maps, and we have tank maps. Now we need air maps.

I don't get it, why would you want a air supremecy against a army of fighters only?
If I was the commander of such an airfield, I ship 6 AA's to each shore to counter that, what can they do, no bombers

But yeah I get your drift, but please keep this in mind =

The lack of teamwork on such a airmap.
All the jet whoring (this map WILL be the noobs favorite, no offense ofcourse)
when your team as countered the other teams army of fighters, they have to wait 20 min? Sry mate, though I just think they will get on with the base raping, specially that map, cause it is freaking hard to figure out who the hell is doing it among 10 fighters.
It'll almost inpossible to land for a repair/resupply.
And the lines for aircrafts would probably end in a disaster.


Now I know that a air map would be awesome, I also want one, though I just want to keep it PR.

[maverick551]

Well, I doubt it'd be too complicated to import some destroyer models and give us controlable ships with like, missile launchers. Like the sub from NAW, only in ship form. And to give us static aircraft carriers with planes. Missile barrage! Bwuahahahaha

Not to difficult? First off, there are really no ship models other than the essex or the RIB, which means all theses "destroyers" that you speak of only exist in your brain. Secondly, I don't believe drivable ships are even feasible with the current engine. Trust me, making a full on sea map with drivable ships (Desert Combat style) would take more time than any DEV probably wants to think about. I am for a Air map however, two small islands, and (the rest water allowing for the fog distance to be increased vastly allowing for some real air to air action could be quite nice) the vast ocean with 5-10 planes a side, focusing on just dogfighting. But I would rather just see just a community mapper do this, leave the devs to their own projects. Hell I will go make the map just for kicks

[Rhino]

its very possible to have "large" drivable ships, there is just a bunch of big problems with it. Check out the Battleships mod, its cool as hell, shame no one plays it

The biggest problem with it is that there is a max poly limit a object can have in BF2. Why the Carrier in BF2 is split into lots of little bits and then put together like a puzzel by the mapper.

So to make a large drivable ship it must be first, really low detail.

next is that there are many other problems, like walking on a moving ship is more or less impossible without you getting killed. Battleships managed to get around most of these probs by covering there deck material in a material that did no damage to players, at all, even if you dropped from 500m up and landed strait onto the deck it would not kill you, you would just ummm, bounce

but even with this, you still do get killed quite often and its really laggy while walking on a moving ship.

thous are the main probs, the other one is to have any realistic naval combat map the map would need to be like 32kms^2 and all the fighting will just be done with missiles and no one would see each other, apart from the jets.

[Jon]

Oh man.

Edit the subs so they can take 8 people and spawn zodiacs. Then you could sail the sub close to the battle ship - let out 6 engineers on a zodiac - c4 the battleship - awesome.

[Psyko]

Make a south american map like columbia where American marines have to destroy a smuggling operation with gunships

[happynoobing]

about the baseraping part.... give the 2 bases lots of short ranged AA so the bases are basically 2 no-flying zones. those who fly will do the dogfight outside of base and the rest of the players can... man the AAs?

[Mora]

Have the main fight on the island rather then only the air.

Just have the island have a few flags that need to be captured. PLA has all flags except for the first 2 at the end of the strings.

PLA has possible 1 carrier (or somekind of ship) that spawns:

3x Fighter jet
1x Attack chopper
2x transport chopper
4x Boat
2x APC (can spawn when USMC has taken a few flags)

PLA main base (airfield) spawns:

3x MBT
2x APC
4x Transport car
1x Attack chopper
2x Bomber jet
2x AAv
and a couple of commander trucks.

USMC has 1 (or 2) ships that spawns:

3x Fighter jet
2x Bomber jet
2x Attack chopper
2x Transport chopper
4x APC
4x Boat

As soon as they have captured one of the 2 flag at the end of the strings there can spawn some Humvees or something.

Each flag has 1 or two stinger pads.


Now these are REALLY rough thoughts of the asset on this map.

Jets and choppers can also be split into 2 versions, like kashan has.

[Colt556]

That's kinda what I was thinking Mora. These are my thoughts for the wake island remake, but the same premise coulde work for any air map really.


Chinese Main Carrier

10x Fighter Jets
2x Boats

Chinese Secondary carrier
4x Boats
2x APC's
4x Helo's


American main carrier

10x Fighter Jets
2x Boats

American secondary carrier

4x Boats
2x APC's
4x Helo's

Then when a side captures the airfield....

Airfield
1x attack helo
2x Bombers
1x MBT


Now with a setup like that, at MOST there'd be 14 people in the air, leaving 20 on the ground. So you'd have a 20v20 game on the island with the 10 heli's transporting, and doing CAS while the jets tried to keep eachother off the ground players. The carriers would each have a lot of heavy AA to keep base rape down, and so would the air-field.

I personally think this would be awsome, as the jets wouldn't really harm the ground forces since, first of all, they wouldn't be able to see them easily because of foliage and thus would require friendly ground forces to paint the target. And secondly, if they tried an attack run they'd be shot down.

So it really segments the map to those in the air, and those on the island. So for those who don't want to fly or man an AA gun they can still fight on the island and try to cap the flags. Add some nice tall grass and trees and bushes and you'd have yourself one hell of an infantry map, with the flyboys fighting overhead.

Of course this could go all horribly wrong in practice, but it sounds pretty sound to me.

[Mora]

Are you nuts? 10x fighter jet would be way to much even on a map with 8x8KM.

[[T]waylay00]

its very possible to have "large" drivable ships, there is just a bunch of big problems with it. Check out the Battleships mod, its cool as hell, shame no one plays it

The biggest problem with it is that there is a max poly limit a object can have in BF2. Why the Carrier in BF2 is split into lots of little bits and then put together like a puzzel by the mapper.

So to make a large drivable ship it must be first, really low detail.

next is that there are many other problems, like walking on a moving ship is more or less impossible without you getting killed. Battleships managed to get around most of these probs by covering there deck material in a material that did no damage to players, at all, even if you dropped from 500m up and landed strait onto the deck it would not kill you, you would just ummm, bounce

but even with this, you still do get killed quite often and its really laggy while walking on a moving ship.

thous are the main probs, the other one is to have any realistic naval combat map the map would need to be like 32kms^2 and all the fighting will just be done with missiles and no one would see each other, apart from the jets.

So what about an air-focused map with long-range view distances over water (to prevent bigtime performance hits)? I knew the OP would be asking for too much when he started talking about naval combat though. It's not possible to walk on/in moving objects in BF2 like it was in BF1942.

[Colt556]

Are you nuts? 10x fighter jet would be way to much even on a map with 8x8KM.

Well maybe, you'd have to see since noone here has even SEEN an 8x8 map, let alone see how 20 fighters fit onto it. It does sound like a lot but I've seen 2v3 fighters work on training kashan just fine, and rarely even see eachother. This map is twice it's size, so maybe 20 jets would be pushing it, but you'd have to get 20 pilots in the air before deciding if it's too much or not lol.

[[T]waylay00]

I'd say at max 6 jets per side. And that's pushing it.

I'd also really like to see some two-seater aircraft that really increase the importance of the WSO (Weapon Systems Officer).

[Waaah_Wah]

next is that there are many other problems, like walking on a moving ship is more or less impossible without you getting killed.

But you can walk in a flying Merlin?

[Colt556]

Well, I wasn't thinkin of walkign on the moving ships anyhow. The carriers would be statics, and the cruisers would be like the sub from NAW, only you spawn in it liek the V-22 from training kash. And it'd have AA guns n missile batteries n whatnot. Could work, but prolly would take a lot to do.

[Nagard]

waylay00;718378']I'd say at max 6 jets per side. And that's pushing it.

I'd also really like to see some two-seater aircraft that really increase the importance of the WSO (Weapon Systems Officer).

6 would be a little bit less don't you think so? What about something like 14 one-seat-fighters (so you can form up two squads full off fighters the other 2 fighters would be in one squad with the pilot of the AEW&C and protect it from the enemy) and then 6 two-seater-aircrafts (another two squads). These 4 squads would be able to deliver serious pain to the enemy if they would be well coordinated by another aircraft (something like the E2 Hawkeye or whatever). This one would be something like the commandpost and the commander could use the radar of the AEW&C to guide his pilots to the enemy. For this you can give him back the radarscan but still withhold him the ability to spot targets on the map. Also give the Hawkeye the UAV ability (just a little bit bigger radius ^^). That way you could have serious air battles on big maps. Forget about the ships (you would need at least 10 players to man a ships CIC). Just place two carriers or a big airfield per side. At last you would need some heavy AA defense around the carriers or airfields to prevent the enemy from entering the homebase airspace.
With 2 CIWSs per carrier or comparable AA assets at the airfields you could deliver such a death zone. That would be another 8 guys and so all in all you could have a 64 players air battle map.
I really would leave the ships out of this. First of all because this thread is about Air maps and secondary because you would lose every feeling of reality when you operate a ship with 3 otherguys or something like that. If you want that then just go ahead and play 1942 or the battleships mod. ^^

(Just a suggestion!)

[FireStrike]

i dont play the game mod YET but how about having a C-130 or a spooky gun ship if there is going to be brits or american on the map, then you can have them going over the island mabe providing suport for a squad or two that trying to rade the island. or even have them for droping in forces.

just an idea that came to mind

[[T]Terranova7]

I would like to see some sort of air focused map myself. It may not be the most realistic thing ever, but I don't even think the current state of air combat is realistic. Think about, a 1 on 1 dogfight isn't going to occur over an active ground operation. Prior to the battle, one side will most likely obtain air supremacy. And even if an attempt was made to regain that air supremacy, I highly doubt just a single fighter would be used in that effort.

Some other flaws to PR's air combat is range. This however is limited greatly by the view distance. Thus the fighters we have ingame are engaging with one another at ranges much shorter than they should.

Given that however, it would see totally plausible to have a large concentration of fighters on a map assuming that the short engagement range of the fighters is proportional to the relatively short distance of the map. What I'm trying to say is that we can assume that the air battle is taking place over a much greater range and distance than what is really happening.

An all fighter map (Or gamemode) is something I think should at the very least be looked at, perhaps tested. If it works right, it would definitely be something of an accomplishment because you don't see a lot of others mods or games outside of flight sims that sport such maps.

[AdumbroDeus]

For the baseraping... think about it realistically, if you can baserape, you've won the engagement unless there are multiple air bases or one air base is spread out.


Suggestion, small number of players, large number of aircraft already spawned, they don't regenerate. You win when all the aircraft of the opposing team are destroyed.

[FireStrike]

Suggestion, small number of players, large number of aircraft already spawned, they don't regenerate. You win when all the aircraft of the opposing team are destroyed.

well in that case then the map can have a bit more concentration on ground forces so when they run out of air units they can at leest try and head for the island (that what the forces with the carier would do). And the forceson the island can fight of the enemy air units till they get their plains.

[FireStrike]

Suggestion, small number of players, large number of aircraft already spawned, they don't regenerate. You win when all the aircraft of the opposing team are destroyed.

well in that case then the map can have a bit more concentration on ground forces so when they run out of air units they can at leest try and head for the island (that what the forces with the carier would do). And the forceson the island can fight of the enemy air units till they get their plains.