LMG Accuracy

[Bob_Marley]

Right, there is truth in both sides of the argument.

Most LMGs fire from an open bolt and are inherently inaccurate. However, due to the weight and barrel length of the weapon they don't typically go off target easily. So, while single rounds may not be as accurate as an assualt rifle in single, bursts will typically have more hits within a given area compared.

To put it simply, the hit area is bigger to begin with, but it doesn't get a great deal bigger even when firing on full auto.

[[uBp]Irish]

thats comforting.

so after wolfe's post (which has been quoted enough) is the LMG kit going to be only good when in prone? I've been in firefights where i'm on a building standing trying to fire over the lip of the building. I hope that doesnt go away.

[Wolfe]

BF2's coding tends to paint with a very broad brush and trying to make a small change in one area tends to overlap several other areas. For example, everyone would agree that accurate shooting while prone/moving is bad for gameplay and realism. But if you increase the deviation while moving, it simultaneously increases deviation for standing, then suddenly people complain they can't accurately shooting while standing/moving.

It might seem logical to find numbers somewhere in the middle, but there is difficulty with that too. The LMG has a massive clip size and superior rate of fire. Giving it broad range of situational capabilities essentially makes it a glorified rifleman. We already see people ditching their standard-issue rifles in favor of faster and more accurate limited kits the moment they log into the map. That tells me that either the limited kits are overpowered, or the standard kits are underpowered, or both.

Just remember that in-game, the LMG is titled "Support", not "First Guy In Door". Like Celestial1 stated, it doesn't mean that you cant use an LMG to assault; it just means that it will not be as effective as a weapon that was designed for it: an assault rifle.

[Celestial1]

Just remember that in-game, the LMG is titled "Support", not "First Guy In Door", "Rambo", or "hAHapwnzeriopwnU". Like Celestial1 stated, it doesn't mean that you cant use an LMG to assault; it just means that it will not be as effective as a weapon that was designed for it: an assault rifle.

Good to hear, thanks for the response Wolfe!

See. Now you've just got to use it properly, Rambo-fans.

[Tirak]

That Mag size is balanced by the overheat feature.
YouTube - Navy SEAL Tactics

[Bringerof_D]

^^Useless?? LMG's are great Effective as hell when used correctly

yeah man i too have laid down so pretty effective fire with the M249 against the chinese, whole squad downed in 8 seconds cause i bothered to wait till the last guy was out in the open then started shooting

[Waaah_Wah]

We already see people ditching their standard-issue rifles in favor of faster and more accurate limited kits the moment they log into the map. That tells me that either the limited kits are overpowered, or the standard kits are underpowered, or both.

Or maybe coz they want some more equippement with them? Most of the requestable kits have the exact same weapon as the standard kits, but some fancy gadgets that can be pretty useful

Btw, the recoil on 7.62 LMG's really need to be redused. Theres no way in hell that a weapon that is that heavy, will climb that much in a prone position.

Im completely cool with the massive recoil when your standing or crouching, but when your in a prone position, the recoil should be minimal.

[M.Warren]

It might seem logical to find numbers somewhere in the middle, but there is difficulty with that too. The LMG has a massive clip size and superior rate of fire. Giving it broad range of situational capabilities essentially makes it a glorified rifleman. We already see people ditching their standard-issue rifles in favor of faster and more accurate limited kits the moment they log into the map. That tells me that either the limited kits are overpowered, or the standard kits are underpowered, or both.

In all honesty, it's the "Oooh, shiny!" factor. People get the impression that because the limited kits make it the "Uber LEET" gun. Before they even think about it in depth if a player really need it. They just figure "Why should I drive a Yugo, when I can have a Lamborghini for free?".

As time goes on it's becoming increasingly clear and more annoying that people scoop up these kits. Just the other day I made a squad for utilizing Hummers on a 16 player Kashan it had NOTHING to do with infantry combat. I asked everyone to spawn as medics and engineers so we can increase the longevity we have in the field. After the Hummers were destroyed and the players respawned at main base, they refused to wait the few minutes to get a vehicle again. Before even asking me, by impulse they started picking up thier favorite kit and asking "Can we go infantry?". They absolutely had no patience, no self control and no willpower to stick to the squads objective.

Besides... Even when I play infantry I gotta bang my head on the wall. Do you know what it's like to get 3 players to keep a scoped rifleman kit? Within minutes of spawning I guarantee they'll be loaded out with Marksman, Grenadier and Automatic Rifleman kits.

That's the problem. Sometimes all that's needed is 1 Officer, 3 Scoped Rifleman (With ammo), 1 Light AT, and 1 Medic. The kit requesting is getting out of control. But what can I say? Theres not too much to do in order to fix it. And even if we do it'll hurt the players that actually know how to play the game, over the common pool lone wolfer that scoops up whatever kit he damn well pleases.

The only way I think to fix this problem is to Limit... Limited Kits... As in, you have 3 kits to select from that you can have for your squad. The rest of the squad cannot get any... But like I said, this will hurt our teamworking veterans because of our immature regulars.

[Bringerof_D]

if possible they should create a check box next to names of guys in your squad, then SLs can check off those boxes and those guys can request kits.

no one else can. so if you want/need a kit you hafta ask squadlead or squadlead willa sign you a kit then allow you to take one

[Waaah_Wah]

In all honesty, it's the "Oooh, shiny!" factor. People get the impression that because the limited kits make it the "Uber LEET" gun. Before they even think about it in depth if a player really need it. They just figure "Why should I drive a Yugo, when I can have a Lamborghini for free?".

As time goes on it's becoming increasingly clear and more annoying that people scoop up these kits. Just the other day I made a squad for utilizing Hummers on a 16 player Kashan it had NOTHING to do with infantry combat. I asked everyone to spawn as medics and engineers so we can increase the longevity we have in the field. After the Hummers were destroyed and the players respawned at main base, they refused to wait the few minutes to get a vehicle again. Before even asking me, by impulse they started picking up thier favorite kit and asking "Can we go infantry?". They absolutely had no patience, no self control and no willpower to stick to the squads objective.

Besides... Even when I play infantry I gotta bang my head on the wall. Do you know what it's like to get 3 players to keep a scoped rifleman kit? Within minutes of spawning I guarantee they'll be loaded out with Marksman, Grenadier and Automatic Rifleman kits.

That's the problem. Sometimes all that's needed is 1 Officer, 3 Scoped Rifleman (With ammo), 1 Light AT, and 1 Medic. The kit requesting is getting out of control. But what can I say? Theres not too much to do in order to fix it. And even if we do it'll hurt the players that actually know how to play the game, over the common pool lone wolfer that scoops up whatever kit he damn well pleases.

The only way I think to fix this problem is to Limit... Limited Kits... As in, you have 3 kits to select from that you can have for your squad. The rest of the squad cannot get any... But like I said, this will hurt our teamworking veterans because of our immature regulars.

Whats the problem with having them request marksman, grenadier and/or AR? All of those kits are actually better than the base rifleman kit, and if you have a vehicle with you for ammo, you shouldnt complain

[Psyko]

you shouldnt be even able to bring the sight up to your eye while standing. after running a bit and carrying one of those things around your arms are nackered! and the only realistic way you could fire while standing with one is if you sat the bibod on a wall or somthing similar.

accurasy is fine while prone imo. You need somthing with large firepower to terrify people. but sombody in one of the above posts said that its useless because the lack of an ammo bag. which is untrue imo. I have tested it ingame...

When an AR man is lying prone and an ammo bearer lies beside him and gives ammo, while the AR is firing off its first clip, the ammo gets absorbed upon reload and the ammo bearer had time to reload his ammo, sustaining the ammo flow indefinitely. I see noone EVER practising this, and its a HUGE advantage if you use it in good cover, and now your oppertunities are been taken away with the new changes for PRv8.

[M.Warren]

Whats the problem with having them request marksman, grenadier and/or AR? All of those kits are actually better than the base rifleman kit, and if you have a vehicle with you for ammo, you shouldnt complain

It's obvious that the Marksman, Grenadier and Automatic Rifleman kits are better compared to the basic rifleman kit. That's why they're limited kits to begin with.

The problem I'm trying to pinpoint here is that everyones got a limited kit of some sort. What I feel Project Reality should begin focusing on is limiting these specialized kits to bring back the gameplay to a realistic level.

Let's think about it, in PR there is:

Currently: (As having 6 people in a squad rather than what should be 8.)
1 Officer
1 Medic or Rifleman
4 Specialized limited kits

Realistically: (As having 6 people in a squad rather than what should be 8.)
1 Officer
1 Medic
2-3 Riflemen
1-2 Specialized limited kits

What I'm getting at here is that any normal military force has significantly more rifleman than there are unique soldiers. This ratio has been upset as everyone has access to a special kit. Whereas the Standard Riflemen unit compared to Limited Specialized unit ratio should be around 2:1 so to say.

[Tirak]

Warren, if the guys in your squad aren't following your orders, kick them out, hate the players, not the kit system. There are times when a specialist squad makes sence, holding a position where you have ammo means you don't need the ammo rifles and they should pick kits better suited for defense with heavier firepower. Back to the LMG.

The M249 weighs 16.5 lbs, the para version cuts that down to 15.95 lbs
The MINIMI Para weights 14.5 lbs
The QBB-95 weighs a little over 8.5 lbs
The HK-21E Weighs 20.5 lbs
The PKM weighs 17 lbs

Granted these weapons are heavy, but by no means can you not lift them without the aid of a bipod. I actually did a little experimenting this morning on my run and took a twenty pound bar with me, I was able to complete my run and still lift the simulated weapon without too much effort, I'm sure a soldier is in better shape than I am. Additionally, from what I've seen, the preferred position when on the move to fire a LMG is from a kneeling position, giving you the advantages of a smaller profile, a more stable firing position and reasonable arcs. Having done more research on this topic, I will say that I can tolerate, if eventually come to appreciate, certain restrictions firing from standing (Takes longer to zero, less accurate even then) but I'd like it if kneeling time to zero in was much shorter for a little less accuracy as that is the preferred way to move and shoot, while the most accuracy gained by being prone.

[Sadist_Cain]

for sake of realism I don't like having too many specialized kits in the squad... Mainly being the arguement 99.9% of the time is "But I can kill them all if I use this"... so? have some fun with the game and be a grunt get in a firefight!

ALWAYS...

Officer

Medic

Support Gunner

L-AT (or heavy if were goin anti tank)

x2 stock riflemen (perhaps one with grenadier OR marksmen if the situation calls for it

[Mongolian_dude]

All seem great to me, except you can use the PKM as a marksman weapon if you just fire single shots.
Down the accuracy of the thing!

...mongol...

[ostupidman]

That's the great thing about rifleman AT. It's a rifleman and a special kit...which pretty much any squad would have, along with an AR.

[Cassius]

AFAIK there is 0 Recoil with most LMG's in real life due to the fact that the weight of the weapon cancels out the recoil from firing.

I might be horribly wrong though.

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Also the LMG's in PR are most of the time inferior to the normal rifles because of the scope time, massive starting deviation, lack of scope and the reload times. So unless the person is camping on a rooftop shooting down an alleyway which is about 100m long the person can easily be picked off.

The German LMG has no recoil and hardly sound, at least a friend of mine who was drafter in the German army said so. However most if not all of their gear is HK and outside the German army usually only spec ops forces are issued the expensive and super leet HK gear.

All seem great to me, except you can use the PKM as a marksman weapon if you just fire single shots.
Down the accuracy of the thing!

...mongol...

Also I dont like how I cant kill a tank with the pistol, down with its armor, use the wooden tank galileo designed

[Bringerof_D]

All seem great to me, except you can use the PKM as a marksman weapon if you just fire single shots.
Down the accuracy of the thing!

...mongol...

hmm...a long barreled 7.62 mm weapon...sounds about right to me, firing single rounds at a time is no different from having a DM rifle. the faster you fire is when you lose accuracy, not because of the weapons capability to fire fast, but because of recoil and the barrel vibrations while firing