Project Reality Forums

First of all thanks for .8 its an imrpovement and good fun.

Now to the "sniper issue"... from my opinion and experience.

.7 was inaccurate but it was possible to kill people up to 250-300m

.75 the sniper was perfect, it was hard, it required experience, it required knowledge to know bullet drop/wait time/deviation, it required the use of stealth so you don't get spotted. It didn't have the breathe feature, but it wasn't essential if you can count in your head/aloud.
Immobile targets required up to 3 seconds of stillness to hit, moving targets were 90% misses, close range targets (150m and closer would be too inaccurate and miss no matter how long you kept it still).
So in my opinion, i don't see any issues here, as it 'was' very hard to kill people, only experienced players could do it, and only few targets.

.8
I am too inexperienced to comment, but from several hours of sniping / spotting, my first impressions:
I can see that alot has changed, the breathe feature helps with when to shoot. And i've noticed it requires ALOT more time to hold it still, so almost no targets get killed. It seems inaccurate when shooting targets closer than 200m even when holding still for 20seconds, however targets at 200m+ who are still and immobile for about 5 seconds will die. Moving targets - haven't killed anyone moving yet, lol.

Dont know what you guys are on about. The only thing that is a bit ticky is to hit a moving target (i would think it would be in reallife to...!). Simple aim in front of the target and wait for him to walk into your line of fire. BOOM, HEADSHOT!

Big Lebowski wrote:Dont know what you guys are on about. The only thing that is a bit ticky is to hit a moving target (i would think it would be in reallife to...!). Simple aim in front of the target and wait for him to walk into your line of fire. BOOM, HEADSHOT!

you must be really lucky if all your targets move in a straight line
like, assuming it is possible to shoot the driver of a vehicle while driving (same applies for the gunner) in real life, this should be possible in pr too

nothing would be more satisfying than to kill the driver of the big red truck with 1 shot
i do also assume it takes a lot of parctice, but if we cant hit stuff at 200m already ... come on

During testing, there were some situations where you could lay still for 10,000 years but the bullet still won't go straight. I'm not entirely sure what the problem is, but I coded the sniper to be accurate within about 1 foot at 900 meters so I guarantee it's not the deviation. At 200 meters, it's accurate to within an inch.

There is a vanilla BF2 bug that causes the cone of fire to get "stuck" when you move in certain ways, especially when you're walking + moving the mouse in a diagonal but it's pretty rare. Moving again seems to clear it. You can reproduce the effect with the hat (the hat allows you to see the cone of fire).

If that's not it, maybe the acog doesn't settle right sometimes or maybe the ballistics do weird things if you're laying at a slight angle. Either way I'm not sure what the deal is but for those who know how to use the sniper, they're deadly.

By the way, nobody has found the hidden sniper kit on Ejod yet?

YouTube - PR MEC Mobile Artillery

[R-DEV]OkitaMakoto wrote:Then dont request it.
Im not saying it all makes 100% sense, but really... if its THAT bad for you, dont take it. I mean absolutely no offense by this.

Theres only so much explaining that can be done... Wolfe gave you the 'facts.'



They already require skill. Sure you can drive around and maybe hit some infantry with splash damage, but come across a tank, and if you dont have the skill, youre screwed. You need to know how to efectively communicate with your gunner/driver, know where you can and shouldnt go, hull down positions/firing locations, etc its a different type of skill. Maybe more forgiving soley because your main enemy in a tank is the rare enemy tank or AT inf.

While a sniper, you have many more threats.

wow okita.....what an arrogant comment as well as a blind defense of what this game has done to the sniper kit.

I have played this game hardcore since early .5, I have seen and played through basically every major evolution (or errosion) of the sniper kit. I KNOW how to use this kit. I KNOW how to cope with the deviation from "asdw" movement as well as scope movement. I KNOW that the secondary zoom screws your accuracy up so much more than your first zoom it is absolutely retarded. I could rack up kills and still be thinking to myself...wow...this kit sucks...

EVERYBODY knows this kit is totally BROKEN. Why do so many people defend everything about this game like there could never be anything wrong with it? You know something is wrong when any serious players NEVER request this kit over marksman for more reasons than I have patience to say.

You also say this kit is more for recon....you're just trying to justify the kit's existence since its primary weapon is trash. Any kit with binos can recon...


And if you think that it's realistic how stupidly inaccurate you become when making slight scope adjustments, then you really have no idea what marksmanship IRL is all about. Anyone with any sort of skill with a .308 rifle can hit 2 man-sized targets at significant ranges without having to wait ten minutes between shots.

Wolfe...quick and simple question to a person who knows how to answer it...

Does the sniper deviation ring look and work like the HAT deviation ring?

Yes. Every weapon has a "cone" of fire that increases and decreases based on fire rate, mouse movement, and foot movement (walking). The cone is a single point that starts from the center of your screen and extends infinitely outward.

random pants wrote:And if you think that it's realistic how stupidly inaccurate you become when making slight scope adjustments, then you really have no idea what marksmanship IRL is all about. Anyone with any sort of skill with a .308 rifle can hit 2 man-sized targets at significant ranges without having to wait ten minutes between shots.

if you haven't noticed, everything in project reality isn't realistic. how would it look if everything was? everyone would be waiting to spawn all the time example: the rifle recoils are still huge on auto.

with that said, i really enjoy the new sniper rifles. the breathing feature makes time pass a lot faster when you're aiming.

i sniped from the pier a muttrah, watching over the main coast road and reporting enemy movements. i don't know if the reports made any difference, but i don't really care, cause i killed 9 enemies and had a great time .50 vodnik dudes and infantry. it's fun that instead of running when under fire, enemies pick up their binos and start scanning. that's when i adjust from the last shot and pop them in the head. feels like sniper rifles are more accurate now.

hiberNative wrote:if you haven't noticed, everything in project reality isn't realistic. how would it look if everything was? everyone would be waiting to spawn all the time example: the rifle recoils are still huge on auto.

with that said, i really enjoy the new sniper rifles. the breathing feature makes time pass a lot faster when you're aiming.

i sniped from the pier a muttrah, watching over the main coast road and reporting enemy movements. i don't know if the reports made any difference, but i don't really care, cause i killed 9 enemies and had a great time .50 vodnik dudes and infantry. it's fun that instead of running when under fire, enemies pick up their binos and start scanning. that's when i adjust from the last shot and pop them in the head. feels like sniper rifles are more accurate now.

Taking the "being realistic" theme to the extreme by mentioning spawning proves no point in your argument....at all. Why? it can always be 1-upped. I think the game should format your drive when you die. That would be SO REALISTIC.

You think sniper rifles are more accurate now? Your counter-point fails even harder there...the DEVS have already stated in writing the deviation changes, which includes more wait time for accuracy with the sniper rifle.

Cute story there about popping noobs off in Muttrah. If I was in the area I would have killed you for sure. If you even saw me trying to flank you I would have run perpendicular to your firing position during shots making it very difficult to hit me. It would also be considered a "lucky shot" no matter what because your scope movement would create a cone of randomness around my hitboxes. You could never guarantee a hit on a target like me because of the stupidly-high deviation. I'm all for deviation, but sniping should still be about skill, not putting the crosshair over someone and rolling the dice for a hit as you pull the trigger.

Posted this in the feedback thread. Seems like there's a problem with the cone of accuracy at about 200m.

Alright I've tested out a few rifles on Kashan Desert on training mode and I've found one thing that really needs fixing. I've tested the scoped standard issue rifle for both the US Army and MEC and also the marksman and sniper rifles for both sides. The way I tested it was that I held the rifle steady for the recomended time (Which I think was 1 second each 100m) and fired at a vehicle's windshield to see if it would hit it. Here are the results (Note: I didn't test it with non-scoped weapons because it would be difficult to determine if there was a hit or not).

M4 Scoped

100m - Good accuracy in standing and prone positions. All shots landed either on the windshield or just barely out side it.

200m - Again good accuracy in either standing or prone. Standing had more bullet deviation but the bullets landed close enough to at least trigger the suppression effect. In prone they almost always landed on the windshield or just outside it.

G3 Scoped

100m - Good accuracy in standing and prone positions. All shots landed either on the windshield or just barely out side it.

200m - Horrible accuracy here but I'll try testing again tommorrow just to make sure. Bullets almost never landed on the windshield but again they may have just been hard to see due to the reticle so I'll try again tommorrow.

M14

100m - Amazing acuracy in either standing or prone. All shots landed in the windshield.

200m - This is where the problems start. The accuracy was awful. In 15 or so shots only 3 hit the windshield...and this was in PRONE!!! The M4 had much better accuracy!

G3 Marksman Veriant

100m - Amazing acuracy in either standing or prone. All shots landed in the windshield.

200m - This is where the problems start. The accuracy was awful. In 15 or so shots only 3 hit the windshield...and this was in PRONE!!! The M4 had much better accuracy!

M24

200m - Alright there has to be a bug here. The accuracy was as good as the M14 or G3 Marksman at 200m and as you could tell it was horrible. I tested this in prone and held the rifle perfectly still for 5-6 seconds and still it deviated like crazy.

500m - Perfect accuracy. All shots landed where the crosshair was pointed (Minus bullet drop).

MEC Sniper Rifle (Forgot the Name)

200m - Alright there has to be a bug here. The accuracy was as good as the M14 or G3 Marksman at 200m and as you could tell it was horrible. I tested this in prone and held the rifle perfectly still for 5-6 seconds and still it deviated like crazy.

500m - Perfect accuracy. All shots landed where the crosshair was pointed (Minus bullet drop).


As you can see there has to be a bug when firing at around 200m. I'll do some more testing tommorrow with more rifles and diferent distances but as you can see there is a problem. For sniper rifles I can put out an eye at 500m but can't even put a hole in a windshield at 200m? Something is very wrong.

PS. I always admit it when I'm wrong and this time I was wrong. The new deviation system seems good even though the zoom-in time is a little long. But it also seems someone needs to look over the coding because of these problems. I'd also like to tell everyone who currently hates the new system to do what I did on Kashan.

random pants wrote:Taking the "being realistic" theme to the extreme by mentioning spawning proves no point in your argument....at all. Why? it can always be 1-upped. I think the game should format your drive when you die. That would be SO REALISTIC.

You think sniper rifles are more accurate now? Your counter-point fails even harder there...the DEVS have already stated in writing the deviation changes, which includes more wait time for accuracy with the sniper rifle.

Cute story there about popping noobs off in Muttrah. If I was in the area I would have killed you for sure. If you even saw me trying to flank you I would have run perpendicular to your firing position during shots making it very difficult to hit me. It would also be considered a "lucky shot" no matter what because your scope movement would create a cone of randomness around my hitboxes. You could never guarantee a hit on a target like me because of the stupidly-high deviation. I'm all for deviation, but sniping should still be about skill, not putting the crosshair over someone and rolling the dice for a hit as you pull the trigger.

Dude chill out, obviously you have troubles with the sniper, but some people like it. Others have managed to adapt to the changes of this changing mod.

However, I don't think that flaming someones story brings you into good light, he was just posting his own personal experience with the sniper rifle.

random pants wrote:Taking the "being realistic" theme to the extreme by mentioning spawning proves no point in your argument....at all. Why? it can always be 1-upped. I think the game should format your drive when you die. That would be SO REALISTIC.

You think sniper rifles are more accurate now? Your counter-point fails even harder there...the DEVS have already stated in writing the deviation changes, which includes more wait time for accuracy with the sniper rifle.

Cute story there about popping noobs off in Muttrah. If I was in the area I would have killed you for sure. If you even saw me trying to flank you I would have run perpendicular to your firing position during shots making it very difficult to hit me. It would also be considered a "lucky shot" no matter what because your scope movement would create a cone of randomness around my hitboxes. You could never guarantee a hit on a target like me because of the stupidly-high deviation. I'm all for deviation, but sniping should still be about skill, not putting the crosshair over someone and rolling the dice for a hit as you pull the trigger.

woaw, was that actually a "i am 15 and i would have kiled youh!" rant?
no, you wouldn't have killed me. to get to the pier, you would have to run/drive through my while team.
and you can't zigzag past my m9

my example migh have been a bit off, but it's still a game. to be able to play it, you have to cut down on some aspects of realism and replace it with gameplay. i think the pr team has done a good job.

TheScot666 wrote:Dude chill out, obviously you have troubles with the sniper, but some people like it. Others have managed to adapt to the changes of this changing mod.

However, I don't think that flaming someones story brings you into good light, he was just posting his own personal experience with the sniper rifle.

Who doesn't have troubles with the sniper? Can you, player x, with your superior skill over player y, guarantee that you will be able to kill player z, who is not tied to a tree, before player y does? No, because you're not God, and you have no control over the big random cone that is created with even slight scope movement.


Are we adapting to a system, or just dealing with it?


I did come off hot to HiberNatives story, in retrospect it might have been flaming a little, and for that I am sorry. I was, however, trying to prove a point, and was talking from experience as well.


Read my first post in this thread, I already said I know everything there is to know about sniping, I've had tons of 15+kill 0 death rounds when pubbing since .7 and I STILL think the rifle is trash.


I have played competitively for a long time. I was the ace of the {T} clan as svd_twitch for a while before leaving. I can't even count how many scrims we did. I pub with wood and grunt of PRwars squad all the time. We NEVER EVER EVER EVER use snipers. Nobody does. They are simply trash. They need fixing, badly.


Simply put, you can't roll the dice better than someone else can. That's what sniper kits are. Loud, attention attracting, slow ROF, low mag capacity rifles. They would be slightly more legit if they had the GLTD, but for some reason, they don't...

They take far too long to reliably hit stationary objects.
Good luck if your target decides to move. Literally.

Maybe the sniper rifle's sight is set at 500 meters? If you can hit accurately at long distances but not short isn't that kind of obvious?

pippenthedog wrote:Maybe the sniper rifle's sight is set at 500 meters? If you can hit accurately at long distances but not short isn't that kind of obvious?

.....

Ok look, i have asked my friend who is a marksman/sniper about this and he told me that although snipers do take a very long time to set up when trying to take out important targets or far targets, it is not true that they will take their time like that when in the moment of combat or when team needs immediate cover.

He calculates all the small stuff in his head and adjusts as he goes along when those tight situations happen. There is VERY little time to think about it when there are guys popping off AK rounds at ur friends who need help now.

Snipers used to (And still do in this time and age) be a source of fear on the battlefield. It intimidates soldiers, and demoralizes them in the battlefield. However in PR this kit is useless. I have adapted to every change the sniper has gone through in PRs history and i will offcourse have to adapt to this one, and although the DEVs tried to make something cool out of it, it turned out to be the worst version of the sniper kit to date.

On the battlefield you will encounter at most 3 snipers at any time (4 max), 2 on each team. There really is no factor of "Ohhh yeah the snipers are just shooting and killing everything that moves, blah blah blah". Its already a limited kit, VERY limited, there arent that many of them for people to notice that. However a very good sniper who does take out a whole squad or most of it will halt back an advancing force trying to get a flag, giving his team a chance and enough time to come and defend it. People are supposed to be like, S*it, theres a sniper out there, cant poke our head out, gotta rethink this. Thats exactly what a sniper aims for when in a combat zone. In PR we are in a combat zone, in the heat of the battle, not recon. There are recon missions and then there are attack and defend missions. PR has turned this kit into a surveillance only kit.

Do you know what ppl say when they hear a sniper right now in PR since .75??
"Hey? u heard that? that was a sniper right?"
"yeah i think so, think hes trying to shoot at us"
"HA! Ok lets just zig zag (not even, you can just basically walk) over to him and get his kit away from his team"

I swear to god this has happened countless times. And i always got the kit away from the other team to use it, in some way or another (not too useful). Snipers are treated as JOKES. Im not afraid of them, and i dont know anybody that is. If we go under fire by one, all we have to do is move a little tiny bit every so often and we wont have to look back once to see if we are in danger. Infact i will most likely be able to shoot his *** back with iron sights faster than he will be able to kill me. Thats not the aim of a sniper. Nobody on the battlefield i know of really listens to the snipers threat call outs. I still do it to help out and i do get responses from time to time, but ppl just do their own thing.

If you want to make the sniper kit more recon, give it a lazer target designator, and whatch how Drastically the game role of the sniper will change.

The perfect solution for the sniper is to have deviation on for all poses on but prone. When prone, after an x amount of seconds after going prone, deviation falls to zero. When moving scope deviation acts exactly like in heavy AT kit, sharp movements means huge deviation, little slow movements of scope mean no deviation.

This will represent a sniper going on the ground, using the x amount of seconds waiting for the deviation to fall without moving as a setup to calculate distance, and then being ready to fire on targets.

In .75 it was literally taken as after every shot the sniper had to re-calculate for range even if u were hitting a target at the same range, it just didnt make sense.




PS: I LOVE THE NEW ANIMATIONS, but does a soldier really take 3 seconds to put his sights on? I mean i can understand when u put the scope to ur eye, but when u get off the scope to shoulder position, u just drop down ur arms.... nobody "dismounts" the scope like that... its.. gay... kinda retarted really... a sort of disservice to yourself infact, lol. Also why did the run meter get cut so short, i cant get anywhere anymore.

TEST TIME!

just did a test on a kashan training server.
shot at the front side window of a humvee which might be 27x27 inches (~70x70cm).
ran, dived into prone, crawled a bit, stopped, aimed at target and activated the breathing, shot when the breathing stopped.
the results were the same for both the us m24 and mec ssg-p1 at both ranges:

200 meters = 100% accuracy. no bullet drop at all, nailed to the spot i aimed at.

500 meters = 95% accuracy, hitting withing the humvee window. about 12 inches/30 cm bullet drop, which i constantly got after countless of rounds. not always hitting the spot i was aiming at when taking the bullet drop into account, but still well within window.
5% missing cause of some misses when slowly dragging the crosshair over target.

needless to say, i have huge faith in these sniper rifles between the ranges above...

edit: didn't the devs say that the sniper rifles and marksmen rifles were zeroed at 600 meters, and only needed bullet drop adjustments beyond that?

ralfidude wrote:Ok look, i have asked my friend who is a marksman/sniper about this and he told me that although snipers do take a very long time to set up when trying to take out important targets or far targets, it is not true that they will take their time like that when in the moment of combat or when team needs immediate cover.

He calculates all the small stuff in his head and adjusts as he goes along when those tight situations happen. There is VERY little time to think about it when there are guys popping off AK rounds at ur friends who need help now.

Snipers used to (And still do in this time and age) be a source of fear on the battlefield. It intimidates soldiers, and demoralizes them in the battlefield. However in PR this kit is useless. I have adapted to every change the sniper has gone through in PRs history and i will offcourse have to adapt to this one, and although the DEVs tried to make something cool out of it, it turned out to be the worst version of the sniper kit to date.

On the battlefield you will encounter at most 3 snipers at any time (4 max), 2 on each team. There really is no factor of "Ohhh yeah the snipers are just shooting and killing everything that moves, blah blah blah". Its already a limited kit, VERY limited, there arent that many of them for people to notice that. However a very good sniper who does take out a whole squad or most of it will halt back an advancing force trying to get a flag, giving his team a chance and enough time to come and defend it. People are supposed to be like, S*it, theres a sniper out there, cant poke our head out, gotta rethink this. Thats exactly what a sniper aims for.

Do you know what ppl say when they hear a sniper right now in PR since .75??
"Hey? u heard that? that was a sniper right?"
"yeah i think so, think hes trying to shoot at us"
"HA! Ok lets just zig zag (not even, you can just basically walk) over to him and get his kit away from his team"

I swear to god this has happened countless times. And i always got the kit away from the other team to use it, in some way or another (not too useful). Snipers are treated as JOKES. Im not afraid of them, and i dont know anybody that is. If we go under fire by one, all we have to do is move a little tiny bit every so often and we wont have to look back once to see if we are in danger. Infact i will most likely be able to shoot his *** back with iron sights faster than he will be able to kill me. Thats not the aim of a sniper. Nobody on the battlefield i know of really listens to the snipers threat call outs. I still do it to help out and i do get responses from time to time, but ppl just do their own thing.

If you want to make the sniper kit more recon, give it a lazer target designator, and whatch how Drastically the game role of the sniper will change.

The perfect solution for the sniper is to have deviation on for all poses on but prone. When prone, after an x amount of seconds after going prone, deviation falls to zero. When moving scope deviation acts exactly like in heavy AT kit, sharp movements means huge deviation, little slow movements of scope mean no deviation.

This will represent a sniper going on the ground, using the x amount of seconds waiting for the deviation to fall without moving as a setup to calculate distance, and then being ready to fire on targets.

In .75 it was literally taken as after every shot the sniper had to re-calculate for range even if u were hitting a target at the same range, it just didnt make sense.




PS: I LOVE THE NEW ANIMATIONS, but does a soldier really take 3 seconds to put his sights on? I mean i can understand when u put the scope to ur eye, but when u get off the scope to shoulder position, u just drop down ur arms.... nobody "dismounts" the scope like that... its.. gay... kinda retarted really... a sort of disservice to yourself infact, lol.

yes...yes...and yes.

We'll just have to wait until the next patch.

Seriously can SOMEONE who has influence on the development on this game just come out and say..."yes, the sniper kit needs working on."

random pants wrote:wow okita.....what an arrogant comment as well as a blind defense of what this game has done to the sniper kit.

I have played this game hardcore since early .5, I have seen and played through basically every major evolution (or errosion) of the sniper kit. I KNOW how to use this kit. I KNOW how to cope with the deviation from "asdw" movement as well as scope movement. I KNOW that the secondary zoom screws your accuracy up so much more than your first zoom it is absolutely retarded. I could rack up kills and still be thinking to myself...wow...this kit sucks...

EVERYBODY knows this kit is totally BROKEN. Why do so many people defend everything about this game like there could never be anything wrong with it? You know something is wrong when any serious players NEVER request this kit over marksman for more reasons than I have patience to say.

You also say this kit is more for recon....you're just trying to justify the kit's existence since its primary weapon is trash. Any kit with binos can recon...


And if you think that it's realistic how stupidly inaccurate you become when making slight scope adjustments, then you really have no idea what marksmanship IRL is all about. Anyone with any sort of skill with a .308 rifle can hit 2 man-sized targets at significant ranges without having to wait ten minutes between shots.

Whoah. Im not being arrogant, seriously. Im saying that if you cant use the kit and feel it is useless, DONT use it. I dont use it. I agree I cant use it, and I think it could use work. BUT, for whatever reason, its not getting "fixed" like many would want it.

Maybe theres a bug that, even though it is set up to work perfectly as the DEVs want, it isnt. And so when people complain, DEVs say, well THIS is how it works, BUT its not really working as it should. Wolfe said that himself that there are little quirks/bugs with the kit.

ALL Im saying, is that if you dont think you can use it and be of help to the team, DONT take it. There is nothing arrogant about that.

And Im sorry if it came off that way. Seriously