Project Reality Forums

TheScot666 wrote:Are you clinically insane?? I'm sorry but at the moment the standing deviation is alright, I can sometimes hit stuff and at least supress them, but to make it worse that to me sounds craazy!!!

Have you ever fired from standing? Anything more than 100m you would be lucky to hit 1/5 shots, and thats firing slow, because theres so much movement in your arms and chest you have to wait for the rifle to go where you want it, rather than you point it there.

Sandy_Beret wrote:+10
I agree.

Tracking targets is now impossible, and as for sniper or marksman weapons...

The problem with the new system is that it is starting to take away any
ability to develop individual CQB skills in-game. There is no advantage
to having fast reflexes. I understand and agree with the focus on the
team and teamwork but a great team is built upon skilled individuals.
By slowly (or not-so-slowly) whittling away the ability to develop
individual PR CQB skill, the game is suffering somewhat.

If i understood wolfe, who coded the deviation, correctly it in fact does not build up deviation if you track a target, so tracking should be possible

To the CQB-skill-team-thing
Oh well, as far as I see it, a team with defined fire-sectors will win CQB because no one will have to move their sight fast, because of this will not have much deviation, because of this kill their enemy

So a great team will be build out of individuals who know, that in reality running alone in a room where you suspect an enemy to be waiting for you is just suicide

And so they split the room in firing sectors and move into the room and clear it like you should

So skill is now defined by tactical skill with your TEAM and not beeing abled to point and click your mouse, i do not see a problem with that

At the risk of posting in yet another deviation thread, M.O.D. is absolutely correct on both counts: tracking does NOT affect accuracy and PR is more about strategic skill than click skill. YES, there are a few bugs with the system, especially the marksman, but an updated version will be coming in the near future. That said, the deviation system will NEVER perform like real life because of the way BF2 mishandles the code; changing one value screws up 4 others.

But for those of you that are trying to headshot that guy running across the street, or frustrated that you can't pwn noobs with your l33t dpi mouse, you might want to rethink your motivations for playing a game based on some degree of reality.

I think it does a decent job, it could be better but its still the best out of any shooter I've played, except maybe America's Army accuracy when first firing, but that game has its maybe, unrealistic problems that makes it only 1/4 as good as PR.

Firefighting is squad/section based, your main killing tool is the M249, and the basis of rifle fire is focusing a group on a single area/target. Its a hard to do in a video game, but in the real thing it would be much harder to see and find your target..you can see muzzle flashes and that is what you shoot at.

JTF2-Machina wrote:If anything the accuracy standing up needs to be decreased.

ive fired real rifles, and my accuracy difference between standing and crouching was of a much lower value than this game would indicate.

and about giving crouching and prone the same deviation to cut down prone-spamming, that didnt work. people will still prone-spam regardless of weapon deviation. the only way to stop prone spamming is to make prone deviation WORSE than any other stance, but that would be unrealistic.

IMO, prone deviation should be noticably less than standing or crouching, and crouching deviation should be slightly less than standing.....or you could make all stances the same because you could assume that one is resting their weapon on a ledge or something while crouching or standing.

They could make the initial deviation smaller, but increase the deviation in between shots to ~1 second

[R-CON]Wolfe wrote:Note:
The marksman rifle is not working as intended and its accuracy will be dramatically increased in the next patch. Other weapons will have their accuracy slightly increased.

That's all I needed to hear. Couldn't hit a barn door with it on Mutrrah last night! Constant WTF moments.

Just stay with scoped rifleman or sniper for the moment. Those work perfectly fine as far as I can say.

The min effective range for rifles is listed at 30-300M. Why in the world is it made so that Assault rifles can't hit **** under 30M. It should be easier and easier the closer you get unless the enemy is grabbing your weapon.

I've tried everything from staying crouched and trying to hit a guy who's dancing around me unloading like a madman, to being the danceing guy. The best thing seems to be Automatic fire or your knife. Well, sometimes you aren't in autofire mode or your gun doesn't have it, but it seems that it's totally unrealistic to shoot men up close, especially moving targets. A guy running at you from 10M with a knife will win many times over your semi-auto rifle fire. That's just plain dumb.

I've played plenty of paintball and fired many real guns as a huge gun freak and I know it's much easier to hit a target the closer it is. Unless I'm mistaken, it's harder at closer range in PRv8.

dont think so , its quite easy to hit targets sub 30m, either hip fire or walk with sights up with full auto/or rapid semi

OldCrow wrote:The min effective range for rifles is listed at 30-300M. Why in the world is it made so that Assault rifles can't hit **** under 30M. It should be easier and easier the closer you get unless the enemy is grabbing your weapon.

I've tried everything from staying crouched and trying to hit a guy who's dancing around me unloading like a madman, to being the danceing guy. The best thing seems to be Automatic fire or your knife. Well, sometimes you aren't in autofire mode or your gun doesn't have it, but it seems that it's totally unrealistic to shoot men up close, especially moving targets. A guy running at you from 10M with a knife will win many times over your semi-auto rifle fire. That's just plain dumb.

2 things.. the 30m min range i'm sure refers to the scope, as it is hard to use the scope for targets under 30m. It is advised to use the aim point when close quarter fighting, i.e under 30 m.

No one running from 10m at me with a knife will get closer.. full stop, no way. If you are having trouble hitting people at close range on semi or full auto, i'd assume you just need to practice. Fire from the hip, it really isn't hard... i use hip firing a lot to great effect.

Marksmanship!

The Position and Hold must be firm enough to support the weapon.
The weapon must point naturally at the target, without undue physical effort
The sight picture and sight alignment must be correct.
The shot must be taken and followed through, without undue disturbance to your position.

Also, if limited range is the cause for most of these changes, then perhaps the Sniper kit should just be eliminated all together.

You a promoting squad based teamwork anyway. Most snipers just sit and rape the enemy. Rarely do they ever participate with a squad. Besides, there's only a couple snipers on a map at a time. Don't ruin the game for most players just to allow a few snipers to exist. Snipers really are not needed in PR.

Rifles should be accurate at closer ranges. I'm now seeing Squad Leaders use their pistols in forest settings instead of their assault rifles, like pistols are the weapon of choice on Fool's Road. In a 5-30M gun fight, should an assault rifle be a bad choice? I don't think so.

MadTommy wrote:2 things.. the 30m min range i'm sure refers to the scope, as it is hard to use the scope for targets under 30m. It is advised to use the aim point when close quarter fighting, i.e under 30 m.

No one running from 10m at me with a knife will get closer.. full stop, no way. If you are having trouble hitting people at close range on semi or full auto, i'd assume you just need to practice. Fire from the hip, it really isn't hard... i use hip firing a lot to great effect.

I assure you, I know how to shoot in PR. I'm not new to this.

That said, I've actually done the knifing and it worked a few times already.

Another time, I danced toe to toe with a guy the other night and emptied the remaing 50% of my M-16 and he unloaded his whole Chinese rifle on full auto. We danced around discharging our weapons and it probably looked really unrealistic, if not plain stupid. We ran out and I had takin only a minor hit. he appeared fine. I then pulled my knife while he reloaded, he stopped and drew his blade, and fought to the death. I won and healed myself with my magic bag.

I've seen this over and over. I don't think at point blank range anyone should have to stop and wait 3 seconds, and wait 1 second after each shot, or just go guns blazing full auto to score hits. That's ridiculous.

OldCrow wrote:Also, if limited range is the cause for most of these changes, then perhaps the Sniper kit should just be eliminated all together.

+1
If it isn't going to be modeled properly, then take it out.

Most assets are too common in PR anyway. The actual chances that one in fifteen soldiers on a battlefield would be a sniper are pretty remote. Snipers in their current form, with spotting and the maps as they are at the moment add very little to gameplay. We should either model them as they are in real life and limit them on a map by map basis, or remove them all together.

OldCrow wrote: I don't think at point blank range anyone should have to stop and wait 3 seconds, and wait 1 second after each shot, or just go guns blazing full auto to score hits. That's ridiculous.

why would you have to stop and wait 3 seconds? also blazing full auto at point blank range.... thats what full auto is for isn't it?

Truism wrote:+1
If it isn't going to be modeled properly, then take it out.

Most assets are too common in PR anyway. The actual chances that one in fifteen soldiers on a battlefield would be a sniper are pretty remote. Snipers in their current form, with spotting and the maps as they are at the moment add very little to gameplay. We should either model them as they are in real life and limit them on a map by map basis, or remove them all together.

QFT

Indeed...

Yesterday I ran to a fire base with a full enemy Chinese squad there, all full auto'ing me, I still got it.

As well as a Chinese guy full autoing me point blank, he whipped out a pistol and proceeded to shoot me with that as well. In the mean time I was doing the slow as hell reload, and still managed to tri-burst him in the face, and win.


I felt like I was invincible at that moment...

gazzthompson wrote:why would you have to stop and wait 3 seconds? also blazing full auto and point blank range.... thats what full auto is for isn't it?

1.Waiting 3 seconds, change that to 2.5 if I'm walking. Maybe turning also. This is common obviously, especially in urban combat. In every fight, someones moving or you'd never find each other.
"n regard to settle times:
Rifles (includes both iron sights and scopes):
Per shot: 1 second
Mouse turn: 1.3 seconds (only if rapid 180deg turn)
Walking: 2.5 seconds"

2.I realize what it's for, but that's not always an option and shouldn't be required to kill at point blank ranges.
-For instance, an SKS & U.S. DM are semi only.
-If I'm low on ammo, it's not wise to go full auto anymore.
-Your shooting down range from a hilltop and an enemy creeps up on you, you should wait until you select auto fire to defend yourself? This one happens to me a lot. I hear him and turn, open fire and it's too damn hard to score a kill. It's just a **** shoot.

Truism wrote:+1
If it isn't going to be modeled properly, then take it out.

Most assets are too common in PR anyway. The actual chances that one in fifteen soldiers on a battlefield would be a sniper are pretty remote. Snipers in their current form, with spotting and the maps as they are at the moment add very little to gameplay. We should either model them as they are in real life and limit them on a map by map basis, or remove them all together.

+1 again. I vote removal. They are not needed and screwing up all the other weapons to make them useable is just not a good idea for a team based mod like PR.

i do agree the deviation should be tightened in CQB, and IIRC it will be for .85, and i understand the settle times, but doubt they are times for sub 30m shooting.

also, semi is quite effective in CQB but 3/full auto is always going to be more effective , and IMO is worth the small amount of time to swap between semi to full