Project Reality Forums

DonDOOM wrote:Uhm, I'm sorry ReadMenace, but Noob and me are both part of the PRT and have had many conversations about the Deviation as it is now in 0.8, And increasing the Deviation isn't going to help make this more realistic.

Being in PRT doesnt make a difference, it doesnt make you better than anyone else.

This is a change to the deviation, and it's adjusting the deviation, not making it more.

DonDOOM wrote:Uhm, I'm sorry ReadMenace, but Noob and me are both part of the PRT and have had many conversations about the Deviation as it is now in 0.8, And increasing the Deviation isn't going to help make this more realistic.

I was part of the PRT too, it doesnt make us experts

that you can't hit a bullseye immediately after moving makes sense in realistic terms

but I agree that it felt really annoying to have a shot go really wide

so, the cone is being decreased which means...you still have to take some time for accuracy, but when you fire it won't go as wide as the current max = good

'[R-DEV wrote:Jaymz;818704']
Ironsight/Scoped rifle

Changes

1. Hit Capability and its relativity to settle time after moving (WASD). Basically, this is how far your bullet will deviate from exactly where you aim while sighted in.


Prone @ 250m

0 Seconds : 4.3m
1 Seconds : 3.7m
2 Seconds : 3.0m
3 Seconds : 2.4m
4 Seconds : 1.7m
5 Seconds : 1.0m
6 Seconds : 0.4m

Take into account that a soldier in the BF2 engine is roughly 0.4 meters wide. So if you're prone, have settled for six seconds and are pacing your shots well you'll hit a target 250m away 10/10.

Thats a bit flawed my friend.... If the bullet deviates 0.4 meters from where you aimed, we are talking about radius. If i aim at a guy (center mass) and he is 0.4 meters wide i might still miss, because his radius will be 0.2 meters, while my bullet might hit 0.4 meters away from the center.

The same thing propably goes for the deviation aswell...
also measured from the middle making it 0.2 meters on each side

Spaz wrote:I will get removed from the test team for saying this but damn I really miss the 0.7 deviation. It feels like im the only one who thougth it was perfect.

Edit that to 0.75 and we are talking.

NOoooooo
Even if the cone[or whatever thats mean, no power to translate] will be fixed you will take years just to wait to shot, 6 seconds for only 250m distance while you still be able to miss is just to much and also destroy most of distance flanks as you could still miss and till you shot again he allrdy spot you+under cover... but loved the sniper changes and for LMG, well 6 seconds is to much but because other units of the squad will get 6 seconds too it won't change a lot.

Vitiation wrote:The same thing propably goes for the deviation aswell...
also measured from the middle making it 0.2 meters on each side

No it says that the bullet wont deviate more than 0.4 meters from where you aim. Thats a 0.4 meters radius, or a 0.8 meters diameter of a circle.

omg this day is getting better and better, wait! the day is at the end DAMN

Waaah_Wah wrote:No it says that the bullet wont deviate more than 0.4 meters from where you aim. Thats a 0.4 meters radius, or a 0.8 meters diameter of a circle.

well, i doesnt make any sense.... at top accuracy you can miss by a meter?
i really dont that thats the thought behind it....

Thats at 250 meters.

Snipers are still getting shafted, after the full wait time they should get 0 deviation, a human body in BF2 may be .4 meters wide, but the head sure as heck ain't.

Vitiation wrote:well, i doesnt make any sense.... at top accuracy you can miss by a meter?
i really dont that thats the thought behind it....

That's just for one bullet. You will fire a lot, and will not be the only one shooting at your target.

Look at firefights in liveleak or youtube. When they fire, they fire a LOT.

[R-DEV]Jaymz wrote:With the values above, if he's 150m away and you're crouched and have settles for 5 seconds that's a definite hit.

After that 5 seconds he's out of view, so I have to get up, follow him and wait ANOTHER 5 seconds. I'm saying once I'm scoped in he should be dead or incapacitated in 5 seconds.

Adding the scoping in time was a great idea, and one I've always had even before 0.8 was released, however I thought it was impossible due to engine constraints. Adding even MORE deviation in addition to scoping in time was a step backwards IMO. It would have been nice to see how a minimal deviation system with the added scope time would play out in game.

Also, is it possible to make it so that once a person takes a hit, their deviation dramatically increases? Say to simulate being hit in the arms or legs? That way I'm not getting the first hit on an enemy and he just spins around and somehow deals a deathblow even though I'm patiently firing away two shot bursts at him.

Sorry for getting a bit off topic, but what is the target audience of PR at this point? Are you looking to have a few hundred "hardcore" players or are you trying to develop something that could be viewed as commercially viable?

Beyond that, I can give your info to a friend of mine that trains Navy Seals and tactical snipers to see what he thinks of it if you like.

Some brilliant shit-taking going on in here...

Deleted posts from donDoom, Noobofthenight, Emnyron and foxxravin. All of you assumed the deviation was being increased and obviously didn't read a word of the first post.

Let me put it like this,

Maximum accuracy of a standard rifle @ 250m in 0.8

0.74m away from where you aim.

Maximum accuracy of a standard rifle @ 250m with the changes posted

0.43m away from where you aim.

What's that? Almost twice as accurate?

Tirak wrote:Snipers are still getting shafted, after the full wait time they should get 0 deviation, a human body in BF2 may be .4 meters wide, but the head sure as heck ain't.

With the changes mentioned, a sniper round will deviate 17cm @ 1000m. It's basically nothing. Couple that with the new crouch deviation for snipers i'd say you're definitely not getting "shafted".

I'll see how this works, but it sounds good, especially the marksman rifles. I used the M14 yesterday and it was really off @.@.

I like the current deviation for everything but the marksman rifle, but this sounds like it might knock it down enough so it's not better twitch wins, but more accurate then it is now.

Waaah_Wah wrote:Thats a bit flawed my friend.... If the bullet deviates 0.4 meters from where you aimed, we are talking about radius. If i aim at a guy (center mass) and he is 0.4 meters wide i might still miss, because his radius will be 0.2 meters, while my bullet might hit 0.4 meters away from the center.

Some misconceptions between radius and diameter (don't worry, mistakes made on my part too ). I'm pretty certain it's actually more than just 0.4m wide for a BF2 soldier. Since with the system I posted about here, it's 10/10 hit rating when they're 250m away. That's tested in-game.

[R-DEV]Jaymz wrote:What you see below is the result of myself and others assessing how the changes made for 0.8 impacted gameplay, as well as what changes needed to be made in order to keep all the benefits of the 0.8 deviation while addressing the problems.

Any chance we could get an insight of what the dev's think are the benefits and the problems caused by the deviation system?

And the proposed above changes are they in effect designed to 'tone down' or 'tone up' the deviation?

I understand your trying to achieve balance between realism and game play but what is meant by that?

I am most worried about close-range deviation (i.e. turning a corner, blasting a full clip at an enemy combatant 5m away and not hitting him once), and also very worried about sniper rifle deviation. A properly zeroed rifle in RL will have virtually no deviation whatsoever at 200-300m.

It's hard to correlate the theory and the practice just by looking at the numbers.

I read the long-winded theory behind deviation for 0.8 and we all know how well that turned out.

Any chance of dumbing it down or adding pretty pictures or video?